RBG and RW have convincingly shown that this situation with the US military is of the first importance to all Americans, and that controlling it will continue to be a struggle. This discussion in turn raises the fact that there are more than 800,000 police officers in the US (a significant fraction of the number of people in the US military), who serve in roughly 10,000 to 20,000 police agencies (which seems to me a staggering number). The problems endemic to these paramilitary organizations have become familiar: lack of adequate screening and training; infiltration by extremists; individual, cultural, and institutional racism; indiscriminate (but targeted) and unaccountable and often lethal brutality; militarization—in equipment, operating procedure, and mentality—developed to the point that in marginalized communities the police are often effectively indistinguishable from armies of hostile occupation; the legal and institutional enabling of abuse by means of no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, qualified immunity, bail beyond the means of the poor, arbitrary and unreasonable fines, together with imprisonment and often job loss, for the inability to pay arbitrary and unreasonable fines; and on and on. With all this dysfunctionality, the police are also one of the pumps in America’s auction-block-to-cell block pipeline (which incarcerates one-fourth of the world’s prisoners), making it possible for the corporate oligarchy to put the otherwise unproductive underclass to economic use to enrich their thoroughly privatized prison-industrial complex with an updated and far more sophisticated form of plantation labor. What do the American police have to do with the current threat to democracy in America? First, this threat did not arise solely at the level of presidents, generals, and police chiefs. It incubates at the level of communities, local organizations, and individuals. Second, policing in America (in contrast to many other countries) is completely decentralized. There are municipal, county, state, and federal police agencies (not to mention innumerable private security forces). Many federal agencies almost no one has ever heard of have their own police agencies. Merely reading about the vast corpus of the American police, and the extremely various characteristics of its constituent parts, is bewildering. What this situation collectively produces is chillingly epitomized by the acronym “ICE,” and the phrase “Portland 2020.” Police forces in America constitute a vast and varied brownshirt-blackshirt recruiting ground for would-be twenty-first century American fascists. There are journalists and scholars who have studied this issue. It would be a valuable service for RBG to do an interview with one of them.
There is an attraction to Trump's proto-fascism by military folks because fascism stresses machismo. There is no shortage of machismo in the military, so there is a nexus between the two. It is incredibly important to vet potential military personel for radical leanings before they are employed.
Thank you for speaking out on this many more should be doing so. I also agree they need much more discipline and accountability for behaviors especially those that go against, code, conduct, constitution and our democratic principles. Flynn, his brother who is still serving and got promoted even after the inserection of which he also was involved in along with all the others including the ones djt pardoned after already being convicted of war crimes. This interview gives me some hope, I'd love to so more of it.
Mr. Wellman notes that the politicizing of the military has been a long process. I recall a story from a friend who was a retired Army Ranger who had just come back from a Ranger reunion very disturbed. He told me that there were members present who refused to toast the then president Bill Clinton.
Andrew Bacevich has written about the growing distance between citizens and the military as a result of the military's becoming professionalized. Bacevich worries that this professionalization is creating a caste of arrogant super patriots among members of the military -- active duty and retired military looking down on citizens who do not serve, seeing them as persons too weak or frightened to serve their country and, hence, unworthy of citizenship.
The growth of political extremism, I suspect, has some of its origin in this sense of superior patriotism. A military of arrogant super patriots strikes me as the perfect sort of military eager to take its orders from an authoritarian leader.
It is very unsettling, and I am happy to learn that the current military leaders are taking the threat seriously. At the same time, there is a great deal of work to do to inform non-military citizens about their responsibilities as citizens in our democracy, making them vulnerable as well to the siren call of authoritarian minds.
Agree with Gary. Big fan of Fred and LP. Thank you Ruth for Interviewing him! Flynn needs to lose his military benefits and pension as do all military members who participate in this. Flynn’s brother needs a dishonorable discharge followed by loss of pension and benefits. Use the ‘stick’ as Fred says!
Excellent interview. He addresses one of my concerns about whether Lloyd Austin and the Pentagon are well aware of the dangers of a politicized military culture and its role in aiding the rise of authoritarianism. This is an ongoing concern but It seems they are well aware and are taking measures to curb the contagion and spread of extremism within the military. How many others down through the ranks have become radicalized like Fmr. Gen. Mike Flynn. Thank God we have people like Gen. Mark Milley and Sec of Defense Lloyd Austin in charge at least for now.
RBG and RW have convincingly shown that this situation with the US military is of the first importance to all Americans, and that controlling it will continue to be a struggle. This discussion in turn raises the fact that there are more than 800,000 police officers in the US (a significant fraction of the number of people in the US military), who serve in roughly 10,000 to 20,000 police agencies (which seems to me a staggering number). The problems endemic to these paramilitary organizations have become familiar: lack of adequate screening and training; infiltration by extremists; individual, cultural, and institutional racism; indiscriminate (but targeted) and unaccountable and often lethal brutality; militarization—in equipment, operating procedure, and mentality—developed to the point that in marginalized communities the police are often effectively indistinguishable from armies of hostile occupation; the legal and institutional enabling of abuse by means of no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, qualified immunity, bail beyond the means of the poor, arbitrary and unreasonable fines, together with imprisonment and often job loss, for the inability to pay arbitrary and unreasonable fines; and on and on. With all this dysfunctionality, the police are also one of the pumps in America’s auction-block-to-cell block pipeline (which incarcerates one-fourth of the world’s prisoners), making it possible for the corporate oligarchy to put the otherwise unproductive underclass to economic use to enrich their thoroughly privatized prison-industrial complex with an updated and far more sophisticated form of plantation labor. What do the American police have to do with the current threat to democracy in America? First, this threat did not arise solely at the level of presidents, generals, and police chiefs. It incubates at the level of communities, local organizations, and individuals. Second, policing in America (in contrast to many other countries) is completely decentralized. There are municipal, county, state, and federal police agencies (not to mention innumerable private security forces). Many federal agencies almost no one has ever heard of have their own police agencies. Merely reading about the vast corpus of the American police, and the extremely various characteristics of its constituent parts, is bewildering. What this situation collectively produces is chillingly epitomized by the acronym “ICE,” and the phrase “Portland 2020.” Police forces in America constitute a vast and varied brownshirt-blackshirt recruiting ground for would-be twenty-first century American fascists. There are journalists and scholars who have studied this issue. It would be a valuable service for RBG to do an interview with one of them.
Such an excellent article. Thanks, Ruth
There is an attraction to Trump's proto-fascism by military folks because fascism stresses machismo. There is no shortage of machismo in the military, so there is a nexus between the two. It is incredibly important to vet potential military personel for radical leanings before they are employed.
Thank you for speaking out on this many more should be doing so. I also agree they need much more discipline and accountability for behaviors especially those that go against, code, conduct, constitution and our democratic principles. Flynn, his brother who is still serving and got promoted even after the inserection of which he also was involved in along with all the others including the ones djt pardoned after already being convicted of war crimes. This interview gives me some hope, I'd love to so more of it.
Mr. Wellman notes that the politicizing of the military has been a long process. I recall a story from a friend who was a retired Army Ranger who had just come back from a Ranger reunion very disturbed. He told me that there were members present who refused to toast the then president Bill Clinton.
Andrew Bacevich has written about the growing distance between citizens and the military as a result of the military's becoming professionalized. Bacevich worries that this professionalization is creating a caste of arrogant super patriots among members of the military -- active duty and retired military looking down on citizens who do not serve, seeing them as persons too weak or frightened to serve their country and, hence, unworthy of citizenship.
The growth of political extremism, I suspect, has some of its origin in this sense of superior patriotism. A military of arrogant super patriots strikes me as the perfect sort of military eager to take its orders from an authoritarian leader.
It is very unsettling, and I am happy to learn that the current military leaders are taking the threat seriously. At the same time, there is a great deal of work to do to inform non-military citizens about their responsibilities as citizens in our democracy, making them vulnerable as well to the siren call of authoritarian minds.
Agree with Gary. Big fan of Fred and LP. Thank you Ruth for Interviewing him! Flynn needs to lose his military benefits and pension as do all military members who participate in this. Flynn’s brother needs a dishonorable discharge followed by loss of pension and benefits. Use the ‘stick’ as Fred says!
Excellent interview. He addresses one of my concerns about whether Lloyd Austin and the Pentagon are well aware of the dangers of a politicized military culture and its role in aiding the rise of authoritarianism. This is an ongoing concern but It seems they are well aware and are taking measures to curb the contagion and spread of extremism within the military. How many others down through the ranks have become radicalized like Fmr. Gen. Mike Flynn. Thank God we have people like Gen. Mark Milley and Sec of Defense Lloyd Austin in charge at least for now.