"What should we call the Sixth of January?" asked the historian Jill Lepore two days after the violent action at the Capitol that aimed to keep Donald Trump in the White House.
trump said" "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," he said. trump caused the coip or insurrection on Jan. 6. trump belongs in jail NOW.
It was a terrorist attack. I don't know why it is not be called as such. The definition of terrorism is "The use of violence or intimidation to achieve political aims." That is EXACTLY what happened on 1/6.
The American imperial state has never been democratic. Genocidal displacement of indigenous people followed by slavery and imperial wars have been the underlying melodic themes stomp-danced to the sick beat of enviro-destruction and the development of mass delusional perception abnormalities.
Money with its brother, insatiable greed, owns the political system with few exceptions and the information order that writes the themes for delusional consciousness. The American apocalypse is several hundreds of years old. Let us get over the delusion that there is a fix on the horizon or that 1/6 broke anything that was not already FUBAR. The disease is metastasizing at an alarming rate for those of us living in a modicum of peace and security.
Our Government, the seat of our democracy, was directly attacked with the intent to halt the certification of a Presidential election and capture all the levers of administrative power. It was perpetrated and backed by members or the losing Administration, members of Congress, plus various strategic advisers and operatives. “Coup” attempt is only way to refer to what happened on January 6th.
I flip flop between attempted coup d'etat and terrorist insurrection. Since it is becoming increasingly clear that the whole thing was planned and led from the White House, I think attempted coup is likely more appropriate. What should trouble us more than anything else is the fact that the planning started long before the election. Trump and his enablers had no intention of ceding power if they could find a way to void any loss. Thank God the margin of victory was large enough and that the close states were counted by people who had more respect for the process than Trump and his lackeys. Had it been any closer I am convinced that Trump would have been able to execute the steal, likely using the same means used by Bush in 2000. Use a corrupt Supreme Court to stop recounts in close states that Trump was not yet losing, but would if all the votes were counted.
And given that it was a coup attempt, it calls out for appropriate punishment for the plotters and participants. Can we reopen Alcatraz? Or ship them all off to Gitmo?
Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes – by Andrew M. Lobaczew calls for the science of Political Ponerology to analyze the evil done by political psychopaths. This science would demand a new vocabulary through united efforts of psychologists, sociologists, scholars of governments and authoritarianism and other disciplines. Certainly words for various kinds of crimes against the state would be included.
As for the Jan. 6 event, I think the definitions of 'insurrection' and 'seditious conspiracy' both work. Perhaps the Jan. 6 Committee's findings will indicate which term is best.
All of the terms mentioned are appropriate. I use the term "insurrection" because the 14th Amendment uses it in describing the loss of qualification for holding public office. It applies to any person who holds any office, civil or military in the U.S. It then lists many of those offices specifically including President, VP, member of congress, executive or judicial officer who has sworn to support the Constitution. If any of these listed officers "have engaged in insurrection or rebellion...or given aid or comfort to the enemies" they are ineligible to hold any public office in the US. Congress can restore the eligibility by two-thirds vote. I am hopeful the final report of the Jan6 Committee will list those who, based on the facts presented, committed "insurrection or rebellion" under the Constitution. This would be confirmed by passing a resolution by a simple majority vote by the House and Senate.
I would agree. Jan. 6 was an attempted coup, or self-coup. It lacked the support and participation of the military on behalf of the coup leader (Trump), hence its failure.
In 2024, when the republican party contests the results of a presidential election they fail to win with greater vigor, and republican led states enact their new legislation to throw out their popular votes and install their electors, and angry voters take to the streets while congress hems and haws over their course of action, where the mitary falls - support of the popularly elected candidate or support of the candidate with more electors due to state legislatures actions, will determine the outcome of the next coup.
The writing is on the wall. The next presidential election outcome will very likely be established via coup. The cat is out of the bag. One party in America has seen that it is possible to take power via coup if electoral strategies fail them. Jan. 6 failed, but came within an hour of capturing congress persons, which would have required the military to make a choice - support Trump, or support some members of congress.
I agree let's just call it for what it is --a coup! The traitors who, orchestrated, financed and planned it must be held accountable, convicted and jailed!
Well … we’re still arguing over what to call the war in the US from 1861 to 1865 … Civil War or War of Northern Aggression … War between the states, or the Lost Cause … and not having had our own Truth and Reconciliation Commission (like SoAfrica in ‘95), the national wound continues to fester, and contribute to tragedies like Jan6.
I favor SELF-COUP. Words without previously strong associations seem to stick…. 9-11 … Hiroshima… Pearl Harbor … Titanic … Challenger … D-Day.
I look at Jan 6th from a psychological point of view. Here we have a sociopath (APD), Trump creating an atmosphere of post-truth among his followers in a ploy to have his obsequious fans do his dirty work when required. This is known as narcissistic triangulation. Trump is suffering from the victimized bully syndrome and convinced his followers to emulate that trait in themselves. Trump is their role model, so it became easy for them to emulate him. Victimhood, of course is a major part of fascism, so Trump's use of this tool is another data point that Trump uses fascist politics. Trump's sycophants stormed the Capitol, believing that Trump had won the election. They believed a sociopath, not knowing that sociopaths are inveterate liars. When 74 million people have a lunatic as a hero, crazy things will happen, and reality gets turned on its head. You end up with a post-truth hellscape like Jan 6th.
While it amounted to a failed coup, a strong argument can be made that those involved could (and should) be prosecuted for seditious conspiracy under 18 U.S.C. § 2384: “If two or more persons...conspire...by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.” Calling Jan. 6 a “seditious act” works for me.
Well said Ruth. The fact that coming on 1 year later there is still strict partisan discipline means we’re not done yet, just like the retired generals said. Very unstable & insecure times for America.
trump said" "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," he said. trump caused the coip or insurrection on Jan. 6. trump belongs in jail NOW.
It was a terrorist attack. I don't know why it is not be called as such. The definition of terrorism is "The use of violence or intimidation to achieve political aims." That is EXACTLY what happened on 1/6.
As Rod Stewart sings, “The first cut is the deepest”. He didn’t claim the only.
The American imperial state has never been democratic. Genocidal displacement of indigenous people followed by slavery and imperial wars have been the underlying melodic themes stomp-danced to the sick beat of enviro-destruction and the development of mass delusional perception abnormalities.
Money with its brother, insatiable greed, owns the political system with few exceptions and the information order that writes the themes for delusional consciousness. The American apocalypse is several hundreds of years old. Let us get over the delusion that there is a fix on the horizon or that 1/6 broke anything that was not already FUBAR. The disease is metastasizing at an alarming rate for those of us living in a modicum of peace and security.
Our Government, the seat of our democracy, was directly attacked with the intent to halt the certification of a Presidential election and capture all the levers of administrative power. It was perpetrated and backed by members or the losing Administration, members of Congress, plus various strategic advisers and operatives. “Coup” attempt is only way to refer to what happened on January 6th.
I flip flop between attempted coup d'etat and terrorist insurrection. Since it is becoming increasingly clear that the whole thing was planned and led from the White House, I think attempted coup is likely more appropriate. What should trouble us more than anything else is the fact that the planning started long before the election. Trump and his enablers had no intention of ceding power if they could find a way to void any loss. Thank God the margin of victory was large enough and that the close states were counted by people who had more respect for the process than Trump and his lackeys. Had it been any closer I am convinced that Trump would have been able to execute the steal, likely using the same means used by Bush in 2000. Use a corrupt Supreme Court to stop recounts in close states that Trump was not yet losing, but would if all the votes were counted.
And given that it was a coup attempt, it calls out for appropriate punishment for the plotters and participants. Can we reopen Alcatraz? Or ship them all off to Gitmo?
Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes – by Andrew M. Lobaczew calls for the science of Political Ponerology to analyze the evil done by political psychopaths. This science would demand a new vocabulary through united efforts of psychologists, sociologists, scholars of governments and authoritarianism and other disciplines. Certainly words for various kinds of crimes against the state would be included.
As for the Jan. 6 event, I think the definitions of 'insurrection' and 'seditious conspiracy' both work. Perhaps the Jan. 6 Committee's findings will indicate which term is best.
The French phrase “Coup d’etat” means “A blow against the state”. That seems appropriate here. Bryce
All of the terms mentioned are appropriate. I use the term "insurrection" because the 14th Amendment uses it in describing the loss of qualification for holding public office. It applies to any person who holds any office, civil or military in the U.S. It then lists many of those offices specifically including President, VP, member of congress, executive or judicial officer who has sworn to support the Constitution. If any of these listed officers "have engaged in insurrection or rebellion...or given aid or comfort to the enemies" they are ineligible to hold any public office in the US. Congress can restore the eligibility by two-thirds vote. I am hopeful the final report of the Jan6 Committee will list those who, based on the facts presented, committed "insurrection or rebellion" under the Constitution. This would be confirmed by passing a resolution by a simple majority vote by the House and Senate.
Una rosa by any other name is still an autogolpe.
I would agree. Jan. 6 was an attempted coup, or self-coup. It lacked the support and participation of the military on behalf of the coup leader (Trump), hence its failure.
In 2024, when the republican party contests the results of a presidential election they fail to win with greater vigor, and republican led states enact their new legislation to throw out their popular votes and install their electors, and angry voters take to the streets while congress hems and haws over their course of action, where the mitary falls - support of the popularly elected candidate or support of the candidate with more electors due to state legislatures actions, will determine the outcome of the next coup.
The writing is on the wall. The next presidential election outcome will very likely be established via coup. The cat is out of the bag. One party in America has seen that it is possible to take power via coup if electoral strategies fail them. Jan. 6 failed, but came within an hour of capturing congress persons, which would have required the military to make a choice - support Trump, or support some members of congress.
For the next attempt, expect better organization.
I agree let's just call it for what it is --a coup! The traitors who, orchestrated, financed and planned it must be held accountable, convicted and jailed!
Well … we’re still arguing over what to call the war in the US from 1861 to 1865 … Civil War or War of Northern Aggression … War between the states, or the Lost Cause … and not having had our own Truth and Reconciliation Commission (like SoAfrica in ‘95), the national wound continues to fester, and contribute to tragedies like Jan6.
I favor SELF-COUP. Words without previously strong associations seem to stick…. 9-11 … Hiroshima… Pearl Harbor … Titanic … Challenger … D-Day.
I look at Jan 6th from a psychological point of view. Here we have a sociopath (APD), Trump creating an atmosphere of post-truth among his followers in a ploy to have his obsequious fans do his dirty work when required. This is known as narcissistic triangulation. Trump is suffering from the victimized bully syndrome and convinced his followers to emulate that trait in themselves. Trump is their role model, so it became easy for them to emulate him. Victimhood, of course is a major part of fascism, so Trump's use of this tool is another data point that Trump uses fascist politics. Trump's sycophants stormed the Capitol, believing that Trump had won the election. They believed a sociopath, not knowing that sociopaths are inveterate liars. When 74 million people have a lunatic as a hero, crazy things will happen, and reality gets turned on its head. You end up with a post-truth hellscape like Jan 6th.
While it amounted to a failed coup, a strong argument can be made that those involved could (and should) be prosecuted for seditious conspiracy under 18 U.S.C. § 2384: “If two or more persons...conspire...by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.” Calling Jan. 6 a “seditious act” works for me.
Well said Ruth. The fact that coming on 1 year later there is still strict partisan discipline means we’re not done yet, just like the retired generals said. Very unstable & insecure times for America.