Information warfare is the point of Trump's participation. The lack of live fact-checking by the moderators will make his goal of indoctrination easier
By now everybody with a functional mind knows how he uses asymmetrical warfare on the polity. CNN who wants to go more Right, may think this is a smart move for Trump access, but they are no longer acting like the Fourth Estate.
Thank you for this. To bad there isn't live fact-checking. I was also wondering if he might announce his VP tonight as a way of grabbing headlines that would eclipse Biden's debate performance.
Presidential debates are not about the "here and now' but a vision for the future. Tonight's debate will be historical because for the first time, two individuals who have held the office of the President of the US will be engaged, and both have warts. He who has the best spin, wins. Rather unbelievable when the past records, morals, and criminality of the two participants are evaluated. "May you live in interesting times" is a curse, not a blessing.
I love the “no audience” and I love ‘shutting off the mic” of each speaker during the appropriate time. An on-site group of fact-checkers would have made this debate an “five-star” event. I’m going to take a Dramamine in preparation for the eye-rolling these guys will direct at each other when they can’t overtake the conversation~ Should be quite interesting.
I wish I had access to an accurate and complete account of the negotiations between and among the principals in tonight's presidential debate, namely Biden, Trump and the moderators or whoever it is that has final and binding authority over the moderators' positions on the debate.
That way I wouldn't be left to speculate why the parties' statements are not subject to real-time fact checking. Biden and his people know that Trump is a compulsive and entertaining liar. In a better sort of world, our constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech would not protect demonstrable lies told in furtherance of a candidate's electoral campaign. By now Trump would have been promptly enjoined from telling all the usual canards upon risk of incurring substantial monetary penalties.
Unfortunately, since free speech jurisprudence currently favors liars such as Trump on the basis that the truth is a fail-safe prophylactic in the marketplace of ideas (it almost never is today), then denouncing and correcting Trump's lies immediately is the only defense available to Biden. Only during a debate, when the two candidates are face to face, would Biden ever come close to being able to counter Trump's lies by having fact-checkers state the truth on the spot. Even then Trump's surrogates and apologists would likely be broadcasting the same lies to other audiences.
Hence Biden's people must have requested that any words uttered by Trump be verified immediately and corrected by a live fact checker. Had Trump threatened to pull out over that, think what a PR coup it would have been for a Biden campaign that was determined to win at all costs. ("Biden: Trump Is Afraid of the Truth!") If Biden negotiated away instant fact-checking for some other perceived advantage, I hope the public learns what it was and that there's a consensus afterwards that it was worth it.
Democrats are poor negotiators..perhaps they thought Joe would adequately call out some of the lies. Was it Frum that said the Biden outfit should not debate a convicted felon as it elevates him?? Looks like he was right...and that one decision by Biden campaign may cost us the republic..
I am BOYCOTTING the debate as I refuse to participate in the normalization of someone as heinous as Trump who would be in prison right now, but for the fact that our current leaders of the "free world" refuse to properly subdue the threats on them and us ALL due to the Republican Party's takeover by even worse extremists this century and their foreign collaborators including evil Putin. Ukraine's wise and heroic President Zelenskyy properly banned pro-Putin parties who threaten the Ukrainian population in coordination with Putin.
I remember when Biden also normalized Putin by treating him as a stateman in Geneva, Switzerland. Keep urging the Biden-Harris Administration to overcome these authoritarians with much more urgency while also working as hard as we can to continue to get out the BLUE vote yet again to insist that our elected leaders and legislators and their appointees they yet again fulfill their emergency responsibilities to us and our struggling and tottering nation by being the leaders they said we should count on and trust as the best candidates previously. It's time for THEM to #FinishTheJob indeed and #SaveOurDemocracy using the powers we already granted them to protect us from traitors and extremely destructive autocrats and their insidious domestic and foreign network* thwarting us and our freedoms at every turn! ENOUGH!
* By using our POWERFUL Executive Branch—including our military as needed & our global alliances—far more powerfully to better to checkmate the other two rogue branches and the far-too complacent Fourth Estate of the media (not to mention many corrupted media organizations who should have already lost their licenses to operate already) before we get back into the same terrifying spot as 2016-2021 and since. Authoritarians NEVER let up on their ongoing terror and stochastic terror.
I think there may be better ways to go about correcting the democratic backsliding and strengthening our democracy than using our POWERFUL Executive Branch.
a) one's group has not obtained a 'fair' situation (and one's group defines 'fair' as winning - election, control, wealth, or other power), and therefore
b) one's group has the right to ignore the democratic process, to obtain such 'fairness',
Then one has an antidemocratic group. (Control by a minority is NOT a democracy.)
When one's antidemocratic group ACTS against the democratic process or other rule of law, then, one's group is insurrectionist group, and warrants responsive and effective executive curtailment. Appropriate executive action might range from addressing the failure of fairness, to trial and incarceration of the insurrectionists.
By whatever means, democracies must protect themselves from insurrection both via prevention (mitigation before insurrection) and curtailment (mitigation after insurrection). Both are requisite elements of democratic governance, given that minorities can seriously harm majorities.
One can critique Biden's centricism for failing in the latter, but his political weakness and failure of the former is merely a downstream manifestation of prior leaders' failing to appreciate the dangers of a lack of regulation of harmful media and speech. We've been inebriated with free speech.
As a nation, as a result we have an autoimmune disease; our body is now fighting against itself.
The cure is to use the bully pulpit to espouse a vision that appeals to large majority.
One can critique Biden's communication capacity for failing in this.
But if one becomes like what one fights, one may lose the democratic principle that one originally fought for, even if one wins. I agree with docpatti on this point.
The battle is first and foremost in the media, against the discordant information stream, and secondarily in the downstream hearts and minds.
The battle isn't how to galvanize minds & polarize more; the battle is how to meld consensus information and values - to wage peace.
Lincoln actually did this.
We need a Lincoln. I think that person is highly verbal and quick; a Buttigieg or Buttigieg-like person, with integrity. Even Cheney. Politics are less important than defeating tfg.
The Debate should be fact checked in real time, if not, Trump will lie, lie, lie! What a shame that it won’t be. Trump won in 2016 b/c he lied. He may win this time for the same reason. How can intelligent people believe the junk that comes out of DJT’s mouth?!
I can't believe that CNN isn't doing a real-time fact check. It plays into Trump's hands. I hope the moderators call out his lies, although I doubt that will happen. On the positive, The President is ready for his BS and will respond when appropriate. Give him Hell, Joe!!🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thank you for this reminder, Ruth, regarding the essential difference between Biden and Trump, between democrats and dictators. It's that clear, it's that stark, and I hope more people are seeing the difference between the essential character of a decent, honest man, and a person who is at his core, a criminal-minded thug.
But for goodness sake can’t we field a single person of integrity and verbal skills who can USE the bully pulpit of the presidency to more effectively call out MAGA lies and prosecute tfg crimes???
Bet Raskin could. Bet Buttigieg could. Bet Warren could. Bet Kelly could. Bet Bernie could. ... But Biden hasn’t.
We can do better politics. This is about a nation, not a person.
Same - would like a re-do? Tnx!
By now everybody with a functional mind knows how he uses asymmetrical warfare on the polity. CNN who wants to go more Right, may think this is a smart move for Trump access, but they are no longer acting like the Fourth Estate.
Thank you for this. To bad there isn't live fact-checking. I was also wondering if he might announce his VP tonight as a way of grabbing headlines that would eclipse Biden's debate performance.
Thank you Ruth!
Biden will handle it!
Vote Blue in November!
well explained, Ruth. Thanks.
Trump has two paramount goals tonight. Enhancing his own brand and trying to stay out of jail. That’s the only lens viewers needs to use.
Thanks Professor Ben Ghiat. Very helpful guidance for the debate. Also it helps me to calm down--a bit.
Wish CNN was factchecking as they go! Expose his lies immediately!
When they don’t, they are not merely dupes, after 10 years, but pawns.
Presidential debates are not about the "here and now' but a vision for the future. Tonight's debate will be historical because for the first time, two individuals who have held the office of the President of the US will be engaged, and both have warts. He who has the best spin, wins. Rather unbelievable when the past records, morals, and criminality of the two participants are evaluated. "May you live in interesting times" is a curse, not a blessing.
I found this for tonight's debate. Live fact checking from Snopes .... doing what they do best!
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/06/27/presidential-debate-live-updates/
I love the “no audience” and I love ‘shutting off the mic” of each speaker during the appropriate time. An on-site group of fact-checkers would have made this debate an “five-star” event. I’m going to take a Dramamine in preparation for the eye-rolling these guys will direct at each other when they can’t overtake the conversation~ Should be quite interesting.
I wish I had access to an accurate and complete account of the negotiations between and among the principals in tonight's presidential debate, namely Biden, Trump and the moderators or whoever it is that has final and binding authority over the moderators' positions on the debate.
That way I wouldn't be left to speculate why the parties' statements are not subject to real-time fact checking. Biden and his people know that Trump is a compulsive and entertaining liar. In a better sort of world, our constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech would not protect demonstrable lies told in furtherance of a candidate's electoral campaign. By now Trump would have been promptly enjoined from telling all the usual canards upon risk of incurring substantial monetary penalties.
Unfortunately, since free speech jurisprudence currently favors liars such as Trump on the basis that the truth is a fail-safe prophylactic in the marketplace of ideas (it almost never is today), then denouncing and correcting Trump's lies immediately is the only defense available to Biden. Only during a debate, when the two candidates are face to face, would Biden ever come close to being able to counter Trump's lies by having fact-checkers state the truth on the spot. Even then Trump's surrogates and apologists would likely be broadcasting the same lies to other audiences.
Hence Biden's people must have requested that any words uttered by Trump be verified immediately and corrected by a live fact checker. Had Trump threatened to pull out over that, think what a PR coup it would have been for a Biden campaign that was determined to win at all costs. ("Biden: Trump Is Afraid of the Truth!") If Biden negotiated away instant fact-checking for some other perceived advantage, I hope the public learns what it was and that there's a consensus afterwards that it was worth it.
Democrats are poor negotiators..perhaps they thought Joe would adequately call out some of the lies. Was it Frum that said the Biden outfit should not debate a convicted felon as it elevates him?? Looks like he was right...and that one decision by Biden campaign may cost us the republic..
I am BOYCOTTING the debate as I refuse to participate in the normalization of someone as heinous as Trump who would be in prison right now, but for the fact that our current leaders of the "free world" refuse to properly subdue the threats on them and us ALL due to the Republican Party's takeover by even worse extremists this century and their foreign collaborators including evil Putin. Ukraine's wise and heroic President Zelenskyy properly banned pro-Putin parties who threaten the Ukrainian population in coordination with Putin.
I remember when Biden also normalized Putin by treating him as a stateman in Geneva, Switzerland. Keep urging the Biden-Harris Administration to overcome these authoritarians with much more urgency while also working as hard as we can to continue to get out the BLUE vote yet again to insist that our elected leaders and legislators and their appointees they yet again fulfill their emergency responsibilities to us and our struggling and tottering nation by being the leaders they said we should count on and trust as the best candidates previously. It's time for THEM to #FinishTheJob indeed and #SaveOurDemocracy using the powers we already granted them to protect us from traitors and extremely destructive autocrats and their insidious domestic and foreign network* thwarting us and our freedoms at every turn! ENOUGH!
* By using our POWERFUL Executive Branch—including our military as needed & our global alliances—far more powerfully to better to checkmate the other two rogue branches and the far-too complacent Fourth Estate of the media (not to mention many corrupted media organizations who should have already lost their licenses to operate already) before we get back into the same terrifying spot as 2016-2021 and since. Authoritarians NEVER let up on their ongoing terror and stochastic terror.
I think there may be better ways to go about correcting the democratic backsliding and strengthening our democracy than using our POWERFUL Executive Branch.
If one's interest group feels (or thinks) that:
a) one's group has not obtained a 'fair' situation (and one's group defines 'fair' as winning - election, control, wealth, or other power), and therefore
b) one's group has the right to ignore the democratic process, to obtain such 'fairness',
Then one has an antidemocratic group. (Control by a minority is NOT a democracy.)
When one's antidemocratic group ACTS against the democratic process or other rule of law, then, one's group is insurrectionist group, and warrants responsive and effective executive curtailment. Appropriate executive action might range from addressing the failure of fairness, to trial and incarceration of the insurrectionists.
By whatever means, democracies must protect themselves from insurrection both via prevention (mitigation before insurrection) and curtailment (mitigation after insurrection). Both are requisite elements of democratic governance, given that minorities can seriously harm majorities.
One can critique Biden's centricism for failing in the latter, but his political weakness and failure of the former is merely a downstream manifestation of prior leaders' failing to appreciate the dangers of a lack of regulation of harmful media and speech. We've been inebriated with free speech.
As a nation, as a result we have an autoimmune disease; our body is now fighting against itself.
The cure is to use the bully pulpit to espouse a vision that appeals to large majority.
One can critique Biden's communication capacity for failing in this.
But if one becomes like what one fights, one may lose the democratic principle that one originally fought for, even if one wins. I agree with docpatti on this point.
The battle is first and foremost in the media, against the discordant information stream, and secondarily in the downstream hearts and minds.
The battle isn't how to galvanize minds & polarize more; the battle is how to meld consensus information and values - to wage peace.
Lincoln actually did this.
We need a Lincoln. I think that person is highly verbal and quick; a Buttigieg or Buttigieg-like person, with integrity. Even Cheney. Politics are less important than defeating tfg.
The Debate should be fact checked in real time, if not, Trump will lie, lie, lie! What a shame that it won’t be. Trump won in 2016 b/c he lied. He may win this time for the same reason. How can intelligent people believe the junk that comes out of DJT’s mouth?!
I can't believe that CNN isn't doing a real-time fact check. It plays into Trump's hands. I hope the moderators call out his lies, although I doubt that will happen. On the positive, The President is ready for his BS and will respond when appropriate. Give him Hell, Joe!!🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thank you for this reminder, Ruth, regarding the essential difference between Biden and Trump, between democrats and dictators. It's that clear, it's that stark, and I hope more people are seeing the difference between the essential character of a decent, honest man, and a person who is at his core, a criminal-minded thug.
But for goodness sake can’t we field a single person of integrity and verbal skills who can USE the bully pulpit of the presidency to more effectively call out MAGA lies and prosecute tfg crimes???
Bet Raskin could. Bet Buttigieg could. Bet Warren could. Bet Kelly could. Bet Bernie could. ... But Biden hasn’t.
We can do better politics. This is about a nation, not a person.