66 Comments

It’s hard on me to see him ramping up his hate and violence even more. The Dems had better ramp up their strategy to win in 2024!

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Yep, full throttle!

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CNN needs to be held accountable for this fiasco. To my eyes, they are trying to step into the Tucker Carlson/Fox News void. It’s all about money, baby. To hell with ethics or morality.

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Hope for the best, prepare for the worse. Work our collective ass off to defeat him.

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The media needs to stop treating Trump like a normal politician. He's not, you make that absolutely clear in all your writings (and it's obvious to anyone who is not in the MAGAverse). When he calls you a nasty person, you end the interview and walk off the set. When he insults you, you cut his mic. When he lies, you either end the interview or you look him in the eye and with contempt in your voice you say "You don't really believe that, do you?" or "Do not insult my intelligence please." Treat him like a petulant 5 year old. And never, ever refer to him as "Mr. President". He is a twice impeached, 34 times indicted, proven sexual abuser, loser fraud, he doesn't deserve any respect.

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Agree, calling the person you are speaking to 'nasty' -- and not cutting the mic --- trains others in obstinate rudeness. Make manners matter again!!

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I saw you live, both the clip you provided, as well as your appearance with Medhi Hassan. It's great to see you speaking the truth on MSNBC. Are your days publishing essays on CNN over? Now that they are Trump facilitators, I imagine the answer is YES.

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The management and ownership of CNN has changed, which explains their need to have Trump advertise his fascism to create revenue. Big mistake!

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Would enjoy seeing Mehdi interview mango Mussolini ... the coward doesn’t have the balls.

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Trump’s actions & words have emboldened groups like the Patriot Front, a real subversive, white nationalist group that marched in Washington recently. But,they’re not by themselves! If you’d like a closer look at them, google them! It’ll be an amazing look at how widespread hate has taken root in our country. Ruth, thanks for all you do to provide the essential warnings regarding the fascist movement here!

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Additionally, I want to submit that Trump supporters, for the most part, live in what I call the “MAGA Bubble!” Not much truth penetrates it!

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In their world of post-truth, a lie from a major figure in their clan will be believed over the truth from someone outside their clan.

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Insulated cult.

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Great piece. Thank you!

I’m beginning to grasp the psychology within the cult is all about herd mentality and avoiding exclusion.

Trump was in danger of losing his control over the cult herd he created. A sexual assault finding, Proud Boys conviction, not much of a national bully pulpit…a critical mass of previous supporters might start running with a new narrative about Trump, which grants permission for the rest of the cult to also abandon Trump and recognize the Emperor wears no clothes. So it was critical for Trump to get a huge national splash that messaged Trump is still the same bully he always has been, still denies the sexual assault, still denies the coup attempt, still allowed to be on prime time TV, still berating women reporters, still attacking the press and anyone else who might defy him. So snap in line. Trump is one of the lions too, just our lion. Stay in our herd, he’ll protect you from the other lions.

CNN appears to have stacked the audience for him, which really makes a huge difference to perceptions of in-group attitudes when you are watching on TV. I’m worried the new ownership is in the tank for Trump and the GOP. Never giving them my eye-balls again.

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Rarely ends well for demagogues.

I suspect you are right about the herd mentality. Exclusion is the real weapon. Psychologist’s have proven people fear their social death, more than physical death. I always find that interesting.

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How can we combat that thinking? More empathy pumped out? So people don't fear exclusion?

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At a certain point, I don't think that you can combat this thinking. Read "True Believers", or Victor Klemporer's "Language of the Third Reich", "The Banality of Evil", Or watch Arnold Schwaneger's video about the old men in his Austrian village. The pandemic showed us a lot about ourselves, our vulnerabilities as individuals and as a divided society, and our willingness to believe lies, packaged so cleverly and comfortably delivered via demagoguery.  The Radicalized have gone to seed. Theirs is mostly a dead end. Education, experience with diversity, traveling, compassion, empathy, creating a social safety net, emotional support, moral leadership to model the way, a social alternative to the one they are in. I think these are only preventatives. Does the radicalized even know or want to know or understand? If they don't, I do not know how. There it is, that feeling of helplessness. Still we have to try. That's the struggle.

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Fascists only change their minds about their belief, when it becomes apparent that fascism is destroying their nation. We saw this in Italy and Germany. Our fascists will probably go down the same path. So many of those on the right can't shake Trumpism due to the Backfire Effect. The inability to change seems to be hard wired into the conservative amygdala.

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The inability to change, to accept nuances. They are hard-wired for one lane traffic only!

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..... And could be why fascism is rule by one party only. Fascism is of course, all about political bigotry.

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I agree, Ted. “The Captive Mind”, Czeslaw Milosz. He wrote this in 1953 after surviving the war in Warsaw Poland. He won the Nobel for literature, I believe in 1980. His truth is very important for those alive today. Most folks do not comprehend what “normal” people will do under fascism. Milosz gave chilling, real life examples. Extraordinary work.

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I listened to this audio and I think it nails it very well. The it is trump and his followers and what the heck is it? Definitely a cult and it’s sickening when you see these Jan 6 trump thugs willing to commit violence and other crimes just solely for their perceived affection from trump. Outside his death cult we see he routinely puts those out who served him as a trump tool assaulting the US Constitution but then put out for a bus to run over. We see it. Clear as day. The trump cult people interpret it as trump characterizes it. Word for word. Your essay nails it perfectly. Pure emotion. They’ll sell anyone down the River as long as the bright red light that is trump stays lit for them. Pure narcissists. Dangerous to the maintenance of Freedom and Democracy.

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Trump has been characterized as having magical thinking, where he bends reality to suit him. His followers have been sucked into that sick maelstrom as well. It has been called collective delusion.

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“The Assault on Reason”, Al Gore.

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And one more thing. Trump is true to Mussolini’s response to keep the heart a dry desert. This is similar to a Leninist saying I don’t know it exactly but it’s a way dictators easily murder millions of people while justifying it to themselves using this mental system. Steve Bannon had or still has a love affair with Mussolini. Not kidding. Google Steve Bannon Mussolini and read any of the results. The Daily Beast quotes Bannon saying “Mussolini had fashion sense. Virility. He was a man’s man. “. Trump is a cult leader.

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Fascism has always been a cult of machismo, probably because of the sociopathic grandiosity of the leader.

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Thom Hartmann makes a pretty compelling case that Trump is a Russian asset.

https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/trump-couldnt-possibly-be-a-russian?r=6pp8t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

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-- This essay by Thom Hartmann -- needs to be elevated. He connects the dots for busy carpooling America. Thank you for contributing this to the discussion, really stunning. A must- read.

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The noise seems to be a majority, the coverage a false flag of gaining as the blood and guts so sells the morning news. But in actuality the movement is -though dangerous- a less than 30% . Maybe smaller.

Not. To. Be. Underestimated.

These movements are slow in an insidious gaming plot, and slow (often bloody) going to obscurity ..remembering we have fought this since before the civil war!

We had 50 fair quiet progressive years, but that malicious movement was underway well before TFG.

It’s all hands on deck, hail to the Gen Z’s and Millenials ! BUT....but there is a lot we DO need to improve still..in our own rank, the continuation of leveling the playing field, and righting some age old mistakes. Too many minds are and have been wasted in not recognizing that, including the incoming immigrants ( that we once were -btw).

Stay the course !

VOTE 💙

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founding

Yes, hail to the Gen Z's, Millennials, Gen X's, Boomers, etc . Vote Blue all the way down the ballot!

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If there was one insight I wish more people would understand it is exactly what Ruth points out; Trump is a cult leader and uses his campaign to indoctrinate his followers into believing only he has the "truth". It is that ability that makes authoritarians so very powerful! We must never forget or under estimate that Trump is a master at demography and propaganda. In fact, I would use the word genius.

 How Trump maintains his grip is kind of a wash, rinse, repeat cycle. If he's indicted, found guilty of assault/defamation,twice impeached or instigating a violent insurrection against the United States government, whatever it is... he then is able to tell his cult followers; I'm the [victim] here don't believe them, they're out to get me, this is a witch hunt. He reliably uses the victimization card every time and they go into some level of survivalist mode and protection mode, while strengthening their bonds of love and loyalty with him. Victimization then justifies paranoia, violence and the sense that democratic norms and values must be destroyed. Its exactly what fascist personality cults thrives on. He says something like; You've got to take up arms and save your country, you're not gonna have a country anymore, they're taking your jobs, they're gonna take away your votes, your religion, your way of life, they're bringing crime, they're bringing drugs, they're stealing your elections from you etc. Its the deep state, the Democrats, brown/black people, globalists, LGBTQ people and the Jews.

Every campaign rally, every controversy only reinforces the bond of love and trust he has with his cult followers.

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Exactly right! He is the equivalent of Jim Jones and Charles Manson! Great points!

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He's as good as anybody in history IMHO. Mussolini, the Fuhrer, Franco, Berlusconi, Putin etc.. Without someone of Trump's talent as an authoritarian cult of personality leader this wouldn't be happening, I would argue. What if someone like Jeb Bush had won the R nomination in 2015-16? Would we be here? Hence the 'Great Man' theory of history. Though don't confuse the word 'great' to mean anything beneficial to humanity or the country in this case. Trump is an evil demonic force, who may yet succeed in destroying American democracy?

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He will not succeed if we keep building bridges within our communities. Once we digest truth, we have to move out of our intellectual silos onto the streets of America and find a way to talk.

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I don't know how you talk to fascists, Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, MAGAs? We just have to be sure and outnumber them when it counts during the next election!

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He has a formula. We need strategy.

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As CNN hosted America's first TV Nuremberg rally (Leni Riefenstahl blushes from the grave) and social media corporations now sweep out the corners of our private lives for evermore profit- the consequences for our democracy be damned- history echoes this warning from The British East India company's plunder and misery wrought upon Calcutta just prior to our Revolution. A whiff of conscience, in part, moved The House Of Commons to impeach the Company's directors. The profits were too great and everyone could buy publicly traded stock in this plunder and the impeachment failed. Thereupon Lord Edward Thurlow remarked:

"Did you ever expect a corporation to have a conscience, when it has no

soul to be damned, and no body to be kicked?"

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👏👏👏👏👏👏

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As CNN hosted America's first TV Nuremberg rally (Leni Riefenstahl blushes from the grave) and social media corporations now sweep out the corners of our private lives for evermore profit- the consequences for our democracy be damned- history echoes this warning from The British East India company's plunder and misery wrought upon Calcutta just prior to our Revolution. A whiff of conscience, in part, moved The House Of Commons to impeach the Company's directors. The profits were too great and everyone could buy publicly traded stock in this plunder and the impeachment failed. Thereupon Lord Edward Thurlow remarked:

"Did you ever expect a corporation to have a conscience, when it has no

soul to be damned, and no body to be kicked?"

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Yes, “keep your heart a desert”. So aptly describes Trump on his visit to Puerto Rico after the island’s devastating hurricane disaster. To stand in front of suffering people at his press conference and casually toss role of paper towels AT them is a mockery compassionate folks

shook their heads in disbelief. It’s exactly as Ruth has been telling us-

it’s the shock element response that he enjoys seeing in other’s re his behavior.

A truly soulless and dangerous man.

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Shock element --- catches people flat footed.

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Totally agree!!!!

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Terrifying !

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Based on the CNN "town hall" and his few Truth Social tweets since then (including referring to "Left Wing Fascists"), Trump is sounding more and more unhinged. What we all need to keep in mind (though it doesn't change anything) is that this is not about "politics" for him, or even about power. It is about pathology. Trump's malignant narcissism has been severely "triggered" by (i) losing the 2020 election (he can NEVER be a "loser"), (ii) "losing" the 2022 midterms, (iii) being beset from all sides by legal woes (including being found civilly guilty of rape and defamation), and (iv) the extreme existential threat to his very relevance.

Also keep in mind that Trump is seeking office primarily (though not entirely) to "protect" himself from further legal troubles. For him, the presidency is simply a "get out of jail free" card.

This is a man "lashing out" in every direction, using the only tropes and phrases he knows ("nasty woman," "disgrace," "witch hunt," "hoax," hyperbolic phrasing (everything is the "biggest ever " or "worst in history," etc.). We all know what happens when you "corner" an animal, and Trump is extremely cornered right now. Which makes him even more dangerous.

I agree with those here who feel that the media has an enormous role to play here. They ALL messed up in 2015/2016 by giving Trump nonstop coverage and refusing to call him out for his lies (no one in the media even used the word "lie" to describe them, preferring euphemisms, until Lawrence O'Donnell began calling Trump a "liar" on MSNBC). This time, the media MUST be more direct, calling him out and challenging him at every turn. The mistake Ms. Collins made was not "softball" questions or even allowing him to steamroll her. Her mistake was not remaining focused on ONE question at a time and FORCING him to address it. E.g., when she bought up the issue of 11,780 votes, and he denied that he had "asked" for them, CNN should have rolled the audio tape, and Collins should have made him address it. Etc.

Finally, as I have said elsewhere, Trump cannot win the 2024 general election fairly. He simply doesn't have the votes: no Democrat will vote for him, Independents (who now make up ~46% of the electorate) will not swing in his direction this time, the "establishment" GOP and conservatives (including "business") will not support him, and even his vaunted "base" is eroding (slowly, to be sure, but eroding nonetheless). He will also not have most of the things that helped him in 2016 (Comey's announcement 10 days prior to the election that he was re-opening the Hilary investigation, "Hilary fatigue" in general, Bernie Sanders as a "spoiler," Russian interference (at least to the same degree), etc.)

No, the only way he can win is through electoral chicanery at the State and federal levels. Which is EXACTLY what the GOP is focused on at this moment, since they ALSO know that they cannot win it fairly. THAT is where we need to put our collective energy and action. We need to focus on State houses, and State elections. We need to "counter" attempts to stack local election boards and other groups with Trump-friendly members.

All things being equal - which they sadly are not - Trump should have no chance to win in 2024. But the GOP and the authoritarian movement are doing everything they can to undermine and control the electoral process. And with a potentially compliant Supreme Court, we are in for the fight of our lives.

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Sociopaths/psychopaths like Trump are not easily recognized in society, as evidenced by 74 million people voting for him. They seem somewhat normal until they get painted into a corner, then their real abnormality comes shining through. Sociopath Trump finds himself in bad company with people like John Gacy, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer and Josef Mengele (all sociopaths). These people will murder if necessary, and have no remorse about it.

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True. What his followers are responding to is manifold, from a pathological perspective. One is "grievance"; Trump gives voice to those, and the aggrieved respond. Another is "permission." Trump does and says whatever he wants, with little or no consequence. This gives others "permission" to (at least try) the same. And the things he does and says - his misogyny, xenophobia, racism, etc. - are things shared by his followers, so, again, they respond to that. Ultimately, by "permitting" himself to be his WORST self, he permits others to do the same. That is a very powerful emotional tool. And as Ms. Ben-Ghiat would undoubtedly agree, it is a tool that has been used by authoritarians throughout the ages.

Finally, we all need to get used to the number 2042. It represents the year at which the U.S. is expected to be "majority minority." It is the reason for the "great replacement" theory and the steep rise in White supremacy movements. It is the ultimate existential crisis for (White) people who are terrified of no longer having ultimate power. It underlies many of the right-wing conspiracy theories, as well as its growing hatred of "the other" (i.e., anyone who is not White). Again as Ms. Ben-Ghiat has noted many times, this vilification of "the other" is one of the most common and powerful tools of authoritarians of all stripes.

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"Permission"

Once a sociopath like Trump becomes a role model in society, it is license for followers to abandon virtues and sanity.

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Sadly, so true!

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