37 Comments

Even if i had ten hands I still couldn't count all the lies told in this interview.

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It's alwasy interesting to read about my country (Hungary) as a exemplary.

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Any suggestions?

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Sad but correct....and it is more than fake news and propaganda because we should not underestimate the intelligence of the public in general . To me it looks like we are in a "Weimar" scenario where Democracy seems not be giving the people what they need in terms of security, health and quality of live and unhappy people end up fighting for themselves only to survive. The traditional democratic parties fail to offer real alternatives to offer to what they have preached and done for so long, which obviously is not to be working (anymore). There is no point in lecturing about basic rights, democracy, freedom, integrity etc if people are struggling to survive whilst the wealth divide is forever growing with the rich and powerful becoming richer and more powerful and seemingly directly linked. One thing about populism indeed is that they seem to have plenty of money available from their wealthy backers......can't really blame people to join them and try to get a share of that, even if it means giving in one democracy and basic right. Unfortunately history tells us that authoritarian rule in the end turns out even worse for the population but most people are not aware and think short term.

Talking to my children I get hope though because I am amazed how sharp this generation sees what is happening today and how it contrasts with what we tell them about almost unlimited growth, development , peace and basis rights we had in our youth growing up in the 60s,70s and 80s. Thus in their eyes the world seems to be getting less fair and more restricted in growth and we even allowed for a major war to start again in Europe . ...their outlook on live seems so much less favourable than ours at the same age. Why have we allowed for some the good things we achieved in past being eroded? My answer is that we have become complacent and actually have forgotten to recognise and nurture what we had achieved and through our increasing greed seem happy to throw some of it away again to the detriment of the next generations. Looks like the now upcoming generation is not very happy with how we have (mis)managed our legacy and they have all the reason to be so.

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Petrifying

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It is disingenuous to try to whitewash the tight control of the Democratic Party by neoliberals and assign that ALL onto the GOP. This is a false dichotomy that appears to be setting the stage for a rerun of the 2016 play "Vote for the lesser evil!" that failed us all. Note that protests like this against neoliberalism are taking place independently of EITHER of the two cartel parties. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/12/poor-peoples-campaign-marches-wall-street-against-lies-neoliberalism

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It is unmistakable that the pandemic narrative first and the war now are in fact Technocracy’s global coup d’état. We see the global economic systems collapsing, rampant inflation, scarce energy and food shortages due to supply chains crumbling. Half of human population have been injected with experimental mRNA “vaccines”, which is a genocide of its own. Global human misery is at the highest and that is the Globalists goal, so they can swoop in and offer a solution - one world government and Fascist-Marxist Totalitarianism. May God and GOP save us.

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You do realize that Trump is a fascist leaning sociopath (secondary psychopath), right? You do realize that the majority of authoritarian leaders have been primary or secondary psychopaths, right? Your comment is filled with postmodernism, post-truth, confirmation bias and motivated reasoning.

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Yes, I realize majority of world leaders are psychopaths, that is one of the reasons they achieve such positions. I never said I support Trump, but as far as I can see on both sides of the Atlantic (Five Eyes and EU), a new system that is emerging and fully supported by current "liberal" and " democratic" leaders fits "The Doctrine Of Fascism" written by Mussolini quite perfectly "The Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State" . So who is the fascist now?

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This piece was disappointing, in the folowing ways:

1. Interviewee Sexton is a professor of "writing and linguistics"?? So I can assume he's good at discussing nouns and verbs and the symbolism in Jane Austin's work and so on--but does he have any actual expertise in political science? Political psychology? History?

2. Sexton mentions an "article" by David Brooks. But Brooks is a COLUMNIST, that is, a person who writes Op-Eds, not a person who writes "articles". Surely a professor of "...linguistics" should be more accurate in his choice of words.

3. I stopped reading Brooks many years ago when I discovered through his articles and books that he was a sloppy thinker.

4. Prof. Sexton says of Brooks et al "These are people who are paid six figures to talk about this stuff."

WRONG. They are paid big bucks to give their OPINIONS and stimulate the thinking of readers. I am unaware of any expertise (e.g. education, serving in relevant positions at organizations studying politics, etc) Brooks has in politics.

Prof. ben-Ghiat, you are doing important work. Please, in future, limit your interviews with "experts" to individuals who really do have in-depth expertise in relevant subject areas.

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Right, Dio!!!! Prof Sexton is definitely not your typical academic …. but rather than reject him with all kinds of ad hominem judgements … give his content a listen/read …. years of insight offered on Muckrake podcast, several profound interviews with Pete Dominick on his StandUp with Pete podcast … his books are great … and he saw (and publicly spoke out as loudly as he could about) the impending dangers coming with Trump in 2015, as early as Prof Ben Ghiat’s more typical academic and highly credentialed training alerted her to the danger

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I disagree that this is an ad hom. attack. I was discussing his CREDENTIALS and the accuracy of his comments.

When you say "his [Sexton] books are great"--that usually means "I agree with his opinions".

When I read the comments of ANYONE on any subject, I always want to know, how accurate are them? How much understanding do they show? ETC. I like to see analysis and in-depth understanding, beyond simply liking what a person writes.

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I hope you got to sit in on yesterday’s LUCID zoom gathering … a challenging one hour discussion / Q&A hosted by Ruth and Jared. Certainly, I agree with their historical analyses … like I agree with the scientific analyses of climate scientists. Their theories, so far, are very helpful in making sense of the world that I know about. In 200 years, our descendants will come up with better theories, but so far, they are GREAT!!!

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I did not listen.

The number of words per minute that can be absorbed from speech is far lower than the number of words per minute that can be READ. As well, writing something requires the writer to put in more thought than just speaking.

I am fortunate in that I know how to READ, so I almost never listen to stuff, even stuff that is about important matters.

And when it comes to reading material, I much prefer to listen to people who have expertise in the field of the material.

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It is liberal democracy, not GOP, that failed by allowing raise to power of global technocratic elitist oligarchs, who proceeded to amass wealth by looting everything at the expense of working class. Big Tech manipulation of Democrats, not GOP, is leading humanity to post nationalism, one world government, austerity, totalitarian control, serfdom and transhumanism. GOP and other populist leaders like Putin and Orban are opening possible escape route for humanity from Marxist Fascism pushed by globalists running "Democratic" puppets like Biden, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau and many others.

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The GOP failed by adopting fascist politics. You are calling Orban and Putin populists? They are proto-fascists, just like Trump.

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Marxist Fascism is now an oxymoron, since fascism abandoned Marxism 100 years ago. Modern fascism has totally rejected Marxism. Even Hitler rejected Marxism, in favor of a cartel economy, replete with oligopolies and business power.

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Putin’s “possible escape route for humanity” doesn’t seem to be panning out so well for millions in Chechnya, Syria, and Ukraine

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Jared Yates Sexton has been sounding the alarms on rising autocracy since he blundered into the first Trump rallies in 2015. With another insightful historian, Nick Hauselman, their twice weekly MUCKRAKE podcast offers much - like Lucid, independent journalism at its best and most valuable

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The neoliberal order in this country needs to recognize that it has caused our deindustrialization and that this has disenfranchised the working class to the point of wanting authoritarianism. The advent of neoliberal economics, circa 1980 has been a failed experiment, just like it was in Chile and Argentina. It needs to be abandoned here, as it favors the oligarch class at the expense of the working class. It reeks of feudalism.

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Sorry, it's not the "neo liberal order" (what, exactly, is that?) that's caused deindustrialization. It's businesses behaving as businesses do and seeking the lowest-cost options for raw productrs and processes; things like advances in electronics that are making computers and digital products cheaper; and so on. (And that is not a criticism of capitalism or business.)

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The neoliberal order is a group of elites that believe in neoliberal economics, that benefits the wealthy elites and corporations, while pushing austerity on the working class. It sprung out of the Chicago school and Allen Greenspan. Not only did this economic philosophy contribute to deindustrialization but so did the lack of enforcement of the Sherman and Clayton anti-trust acts. Multiple mergers of corporations led to increased business power, to the point that government could no longer regulate them. Business told politicians what to do. The failure of the Burke-Hartke act, circa 1972, allowed businesses to outsource with reckless abandon, with little regard for domestic social consequences.

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It would be helpful if you could supply a link to a discussion or explanation of these ideas. Some of the terms I see above make me somewhat wary.

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That, abandonment would require humility and honesty, two 'commodities' that have been in ever diminishing supply since the early 1980's.

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One element in creating a better positive future is understanding how social media is epistemologically undermining the structures of democracy. In what I believe to be one of his most important essays, Jonathan Haidt explains in The Atlantic just what is at risk. I cannot recommend this essay too highly. It is one that should be discussed seriously and widely.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20220411&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

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founding

Enlightening. Thanks for sharing.

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Jonathan Haidt’s Moral Foundations Theory, outlined popularly in THE RIGHTEOUS MIND, was most helpful … so I was highly motivated to slog thru this article, John …. and quite delighted that, however winding and complex his rhetorical road (quite a trip!), he seems to conclude that the way to stop the undermining of democracy is to ….. ( here it comes!!!) …. participate in democracy at a local level … which is both breathtakingly simple and profound and inspiringly realistic … the rise of warriors for democracy like Stacy Abrams, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Run for Something, Moms Demand Action (to name a few) seems to give that some credence

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I think that local action is certainly part of the solution. More troubling for Haidt, I think, is the corrosive element of social media which sets people against one another, pushing them into separate knowledge universes which do not overlap, which people do not share. The end result is that people just do not share a common reality. Some people tend to believe more and more fantastic things -- like Pizzagate in Washington, DC, or laser eyes causing forest fires.

At the end of the essay, he suggests three simple changes to the regulation of social media which might cool down the polarization. But I am somewhat skeptical about congress's ability to even pass those simple things.

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Yes, skeptical of possibility of effective congressional action … so focused on Haidt’s call for democratic action … partly because I see how much more balanced and sane my life is, getting involved with some local groups, campaigns (find your people!) … less time for the dark rabbit hole hibernations, Twitter battles, FB group page outrage venting/ confirmation bias parties … and focus internet time on beneficial, helpfully challenging conversations like this space.

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Yes, and the development of local, non-monopolistic capitalism. Local economies developing what folks need, keeping capital in local communities.

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I spent a lot of time reading JYS's front matter in his book, American Rule. He is truly Ruth's soul brother. Thanks for introducing him, Ruth. When one thinks about the damage done by Citizen's United, unlimited money in politics, and Mitch's, shall I call it unprincipled action, disallowing Garland's appointment to the Supreme Court, and the Court's corruption in the form of Clarence Thomas, and DOD's capture of votes for the defense budget, it is easy to be demoralized. Remember it was John Roberts who spearheaded the dismantling of the Voting Rights Act, which the democrats seek unsuccessfully to restore. The Canadian, Stephen Marche's The Next Civil War, makes a case, in the same way Heather Cox Richardson points out, how the South vs. the North conflict is still with us. Ay, these are trying times! Not a time to sit on the sidelines.

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founding

The sweeping vision of Biden's BBB—all of it—was remarkable (e.g., the concept of social services/issues such as eldercare, schools, broadband, climate, and childcare regarded as 'infrastructure') and obviously shook up the 'powers that be,' unfortunately with talons in two Democratic senators. Imagine if the Dems had had a safe majority in the Senate: that vision would have been implemented and a quite stunning shift of budgetary values put in place that could have demonstrated more viscerally in people's daily lives the difference between the parties. We were So Close, and that is the bad/good news. In the US I feel we are still on a knife's edge (as in: there is still a chance), and for the moment/midterms we must give this fragile system as much support as we possibly can. Can we deliver safe majorities in Congress to the Democrats in November? That would give us two more years. It's not much, but worth an honest try. The alternative is surely worse.

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I share your lamentations for the would have/should have if BBB had passed.

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Neoliberalism is failing, its fall out is stratospheric levels of inequality (joy rides in space for billionaires) but the billionaires and oligarchs have found a potent weapon to protect their vast wealth and power. The formula is white christian nationalism enforced through authoritarianism.

Its transnational and Vladimir Putin is its leader in chief, spreading subversion if not brutal killing and war every where he can. Its a world historical battle of epic proportion between Democracy and freedom vs. tyranny and right-wing authoritarianism.

The old liberal world order since WWII is under assault. The implications of Maria Le pen possibly winning in France are so huge in this struggle. As well, the implications of Ukraine's resistance to brutal Russian aggression from V.D. are also huge in this struggle.

“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

― Antonio Gramsci

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Pretty much every modern industrial(izing) state/region - including China, India, Russia, the EU, US, Canada, Brazil, Japan, Australia - have failed to do anything near enough to prevent both a looming climate catastrophe and an energy emergency (due to depreciating supplies of cheap energy). As a consequence for the democracies and anocracies (like the US), the middle classes are getting seriously squeezed while the political leadership struggles to make affordable supplies of oil and natural gas available (without committing obvious moral compromises).

So as our world heads straight into the twin emergencies of climate catastrophes and the end of the oil/gas age, the democracies & anocracies remain unwilling to shoulder the sacrifices necessary to allow for some kind of plausible transition to a post-carbon future. As a result, democracies will be experiencing further stresses and inevitable contraction.

This tragic situation creates a near "open door" for authoritarians who insist that "Only I can fix it" and are quite willing to assign blame to designated scapegoats. In the US, this includes anyone not white, not conservative and not christian.

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It's almost as if our oligarchs had pushed neoliberal capitalism on the US, knowing that it would trash the working class, only to have them embrace the fascism the oligarchs had long wanted.

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