Welcome back to Lucid, and a big hello to all new subscribers. Mark your calendars for our next Q&A. Due to the Thanksgiving holiday, we will not meet this Friday but instead on Sunday, Nov. 27, 8-9pmET. Paying subscribers will receive a link to register at 5pm on Sunday. If you want to join us, you can convert your subscription to paid here:
Thank you for this. It applies not only to politics but to other situations where people have been seduced into fantasy worlds. I'I found myself in a situation this week in which I (independently) used the advice from Thich Nhat Hanh. It was very effective--but part of that was because the person was so strong and such a strong family foundation.
Enjoy Ruth, and the same for everyone. “The only way to win (for self) is, don’t play the game.” Do not engage. I learned many moons ago, if you don’t send Christmas cards back, they stop coming. Leave the conversation, go to another room, take a walk. Eventually, the bait stops coming. Be well folks.
Good thoughts & suggestions. It CAN be as hard as you say. The best with dealing with your mother. Hopefully she'll "see the light" soon. Happy Thanksgiving! 🌞
I guess there are many of us struggling with this. I am grateful that Ruth can support and guide us, while we all send bolstering thoughts to each other. This group is a blessing in so many ways.
I used to belong to a Buddhist sangha that followed Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings, and I still have a lot of respect for all that he did, but my way of dealing with my 4 Republican siblings is to just avoid the gatherings. I'm done with them for now.
We were a close family for at least 60 years, but when we get together now, it never fails that one of them will make an ignorant comment. It seems like they are not even aware of it, but they are subconsciously baiting me. I used to try and hold my tongue, and other times I would try to persuade with facts, but now I am just done with it.
I feel like my absence is the best thing that I can do to possibly wake at least one of them up. It seems that quite often people don't realize how wrong headed they are until you give them the space to reflect. I expect that some day I will be able to forgive them for all of the pain and suffering that they have contributed to, but I am not there yet.
Today I'm thankful for all of the people who aren't lost in the "disinformation tunnel", especially my 3 Millenial kids!
Nov 24, 2022·edited Nov 24, 2022Liked by Ruth Ben-Ghiat
A friend at work is a hard core Fox/conspiracy nut. He’s a wonderful guy despite the fact his political view is massively warped. Any information that is contrary to his worldview is dismissed as you guessed it, FAKE NEWS!
I sense a number of you out there have the same kind of person (or people) in your life.
So, we’ve moved away from political discussion and talk about how awesome Stevie Wonder is…we talk about our families…we talk about a lot of other things…
Sitting here in Canada, I realize that the USA is about to embark with a new congress along with an election season that has started earlier than usual.
I know it will be an extremely tiring time for myself…I can’t imagine what’s like to actually LIVE in the USA right now.
All I can hope for is that Americans in key swing states engage, take action and ultimately VOTE their way to a better tomorrow…or a least a tomorrow that is not an authoritarian nightmare!
Thank you, Ruth for being a light of sanity in these strange times. Your research and insights help me make some sense of what is happening. And thanks to this group for providing a zone of support and safety. Happy Thanksgiving!
My wife and I are liberal, politically. Most of her family have embraced the alternate reality known as Trumpism. She feels compelled to spend Thanksgiving with them. I spend as little time as possible with them.
Fascism requires effective propaganda and the Backfire Effect to be successful. Fascist propaganda is laced with postmodernism and post-truth. It effectively destroys the information space among believers. In Trump's case, since he is a psychopath, his believers absorb his delusional thinking as reality and normal. Due to the Backfire Effect seen in the conservative mind, these new beliefs are embedded in their thinking. Even when given corrective information that should change their beliefs, they double down on their original misconceptions. This effect is the main reason why it is so difficult to discuss politics with conservatives in the era of Trump. Many times they will see you as someone who has lost touch with reality and claim that you have (TDS) Trump Derangement Syndrome. They are the ones holding the keys to reality, not you. TDS is also used as a retaliation against claims that their hero, Trump is a sociopath (secondary psychopath). They refuse to believe that they would have, as their hero, such a flawed man.
I don't discuss politics with any of these people whom have embraced the alternate reality. It's an effort in futility. They have to figure it out for themselves.
Agreed ... applying Thich Nhat Hanh’s sage advice is a challenge ... but applying Dr Hassan’s advice, to not divorce oneself from family who become politically distant , and find ways to stay in touch, a bit easier. It is no overstatement to write that following his advice saved my marriage.
Thank you for this. Very helpful during a painful time. Leora
Thank you for this. It applies not only to politics but to other situations where people have been seduced into fantasy worlds. I'I found myself in a situation this week in which I (independently) used the advice from Thich Nhat Hanh. It was very effective--but part of that was because the person was so strong and such a strong family foundation.
Enjoy Ruth, and the same for everyone. “The only way to win (for self) is, don’t play the game.” Do not engage. I learned many moons ago, if you don’t send Christmas cards back, they stop coming. Leave the conversation, go to another room, take a walk. Eventually, the bait stops coming. Be well folks.
Good thoughts & suggestions. It CAN be as hard as you say. The best with dealing with your mother. Hopefully she'll "see the light" soon. Happy Thanksgiving! 🌞
I guess there are many of us struggling with this. I am grateful that Ruth can support and guide us, while we all send bolstering thoughts to each other. This group is a blessing in so many ways.
Thank you Ruth for all your intelligent insights, and hopefully, make this a memorable, meaningful Thanksgiving holiday!!
My circle is larger this Thanksgiving thanks to your advice. 🙏
I used to belong to a Buddhist sangha that followed Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings, and I still have a lot of respect for all that he did, but my way of dealing with my 4 Republican siblings is to just avoid the gatherings. I'm done with them for now.
We were a close family for at least 60 years, but when we get together now, it never fails that one of them will make an ignorant comment. It seems like they are not even aware of it, but they are subconsciously baiting me. I used to try and hold my tongue, and other times I would try to persuade with facts, but now I am just done with it.
I feel like my absence is the best thing that I can do to possibly wake at least one of them up. It seems that quite often people don't realize how wrong headed they are until you give them the space to reflect. I expect that some day I will be able to forgive them for all of the pain and suffering that they have contributed to, but I am not there yet.
Today I'm thankful for all of the people who aren't lost in the "disinformation tunnel", especially my 3 Millenial kids!
A friend at work is a hard core Fox/conspiracy nut. He’s a wonderful guy despite the fact his political view is massively warped. Any information that is contrary to his worldview is dismissed as you guessed it, FAKE NEWS!
I sense a number of you out there have the same kind of person (or people) in your life.
So, we’ve moved away from political discussion and talk about how awesome Stevie Wonder is…we talk about our families…we talk about a lot of other things…
Sitting here in Canada, I realize that the USA is about to embark with a new congress along with an election season that has started earlier than usual.
I know it will be an extremely tiring time for myself…I can’t imagine what’s like to actually LIVE in the USA right now.
All I can hope for is that Americans in key swing states engage, take action and ultimately VOTE their way to a better tomorrow…or a least a tomorrow that is not an authoritarian nightmare!
Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
Thankful for your scholarship and your blog, Ruth.
Thank you, Ruth for being a light of sanity in these strange times. Your research and insights help me make some sense of what is happening. And thanks to this group for providing a zone of support and safety. Happy Thanksgiving!
My wife and I are liberal, politically. Most of her family have embraced the alternate reality known as Trumpism. She feels compelled to spend Thanksgiving with them. I spend as little time as possible with them.
Fascism requires effective propaganda and the Backfire Effect to be successful. Fascist propaganda is laced with postmodernism and post-truth. It effectively destroys the information space among believers. In Trump's case, since he is a psychopath, his believers absorb his delusional thinking as reality and normal. Due to the Backfire Effect seen in the conservative mind, these new beliefs are embedded in their thinking. Even when given corrective information that should change their beliefs, they double down on their original misconceptions. This effect is the main reason why it is so difficult to discuss politics with conservatives in the era of Trump. Many times they will see you as someone who has lost touch with reality and claim that you have (TDS) Trump Derangement Syndrome. They are the ones holding the keys to reality, not you. TDS is also used as a retaliation against claims that their hero, Trump is a sociopath (secondary psychopath). They refuse to believe that they would have, as their hero, such a flawed man.
I don't discuss politics with any of these people whom have embraced the alternate reality. It's an effort in futility. They have to figure it out for themselves.
Thank you Ruth. ❤️🩹
Agreed ... applying Thich Nhat Hanh’s sage advice is a challenge ... but applying Dr Hassan’s advice, to not divorce oneself from family who become politically distant , and find ways to stay in touch, a bit easier. It is no overstatement to write that following his advice saved my marriage.
Thank you for all of these shared thoughts.