Such a relatable 'play book'. Thanks dear Ruth for sharing this illustration that nearly identically parallels the modus operandi of any and all authoritarians as they grow their following; change names, the game is the same.
It is chilling to see the path that Modi has chosen. It is clearly the road to fascism, given all the characteristics described in the interview. The lamenting of a great past and the attempt to resurrect it; the obvious jingoism; the anti-academia stance; the division of society, etc are all warning signs seen in many countries making the same mistake.
It was exciting to read that Supriya Gandhi's book is called The Emperor Who Never Was: Dara Shukoh in Mughal India. Mughal is another way of writing Mongol. It was exciting to me because the subject of my book, Murshid: A Personal Memoir of Life with American Sufi Samuel L. Lewis, considered himself the reincarnation of Dara Shukoh! I hope my library has the book.
Thanks Ruth, and Ms. Gandhi — I'm embarrassed to say I had no idea this has been happening in India. The general news media in the USA is so insufficient. And that's why I subscribe to you Ruth, and to others located at the side roads of information.
I get the impression we are all students here …. that your thirst for knowledge and truth is a whole lot more important than how much you have drunk, or how long you’ve been drinking. So … hopefully … no need for embarrassment…. otherwise I’m going to be red-faced forever, for how much I don’t know!!! And, like you, I’m also very grateful for the education I am getting from Ruth and her network of brilliant and empathic experts
You interview with (a rather reticent or hesitant ?) Supriya Gandhi was excellent because (thankfully) your questions carried the day. Your interview reinforces that... the playbook of authoritarians across the world is to breakdown the wall that separates of Church and State. Breaking down that wall then allows the political-leader authoritarians to assume the mantle of both political and religious leader aka the "Indoctrinator in Chief"... which allows the political leaders to herd the indoctrinated flock into submission, and punish (in the name of God) those who resist submitting. Think Modi, Think Putin, Think Trump. Think Orban. Think Dueterte.
I have no problem with anyone's practice of religion, but I do have a problem with those who wish to force their "unprovable" religious belief system on the rest of us. Government punishes "actions"... not "beliefs." Religion punishes mere "beliefs." And without separation of Church and State, all of us are set up to be punished in some way (shunned, discriminated against, incarcerated, loss of civil rights, executed like Jesus was, etc) for the sinful orthodoxy of not accepting someone else's "unprovable" beliefs.
God gave us the "free will" of self determination so we can "self determine" our own "Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness." The Bill of Rights protects that God given right of self determination... from government interference. The "Separation of Church and State" doctrine protects that God given, right of self determination from theological interference so we can believe what ever we want to believe (or believe nothing). The separation of Church and State requires that...
* No State prefers religion over no religion, and
* No State prefers one religion over other religions.
History is replete with examples of "injury to mankind" when there is no wall of separation between Church and State...
* Like Galileo when he correctly said... the Sun is the center of the Universe (really our solar system), finally recanting his supposed heliocentric heresy just to avoid Roman Catholic, Capitol Punishment, and live to fight another day.
* Like Joan of Arc when she was burned at the stake at age 19 for the crime of dressing like a man. Can you imagine the horror of death by fire… inflicted by Christianity on a 19 year-old kid in the name of Jesus ???
* Like the supposed Witches of Salem (rapture gone wrong) with so many innocents put to death in the name of Jesus.
* Like John Scopes convicted in Tennessee in 1925 (despite Clarence Darrow’s brilliant representation), all for the crime of teaching Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution along with the story of Adam and Eve. See Inherit the Wind starring Spencer Tracey.
* Like al-Qaida, ISIS, the Taliban (and others) who torture and kill those who don't accept the same "unprovable" religious beliefs they have.
* Like the right wing Christians on the U.S. Supreme Court (Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas, John Roberts, Neil Gorsuch, Brett "I like beer" Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett) who are the aiders and abettors of establishing Christianity as America's national religion through the "free exercise" clause of the 1st Amendment (despite the non-establishment of religion clause of that same 1st Amendment).
The world is in for a bumpy ride, because so many fail to see the political wolves parading around under the mantle of religious robes. For those who do see, many just don't understand the historic damage that occurs when the wall that separates Church and State is breached by self severing politicians.
Agree wholeheartedly that separation of church and state is critically important. Still. acolytes will continue to try to bring their biases to the formation of public policy. Like freedom itself, eternal vigilance is required.
Regarding the appropriation of the almost universal human need for the comforts of religion, many people take advantage in addition to politicians. Almost anything can be justified with religious rhetoric. It is just so tempting to hucksters and con artists of every stripe. Just look at Vladimir Krill the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow justifying the war in Ukraine as a "holy" undertaking.
Yet, our world would be so much worse without the positive aspects of religion. Even as an atheist, I would welcome a reformation of religion worldwide that accentuates the positives while minimizing the negatives which would reverse the current trend. Perhaps some form of secular/rational humanism would be an effective antidote but that calls for such a high level of education and the autocrats know that and so undermine the spread intellectualism at every opportunity.
Such a relatable 'play book'. Thanks dear Ruth for sharing this illustration that nearly identically parallels the modus operandi of any and all authoritarians as they grow their following; change names, the game is the same.
It is chilling to see the path that Modi has chosen. It is clearly the road to fascism, given all the characteristics described in the interview. The lamenting of a great past and the attempt to resurrect it; the obvious jingoism; the anti-academia stance; the division of society, etc are all warning signs seen in many countries making the same mistake.
My book is in the Yale University Library. Unfortunately, Supriya's book is not in the Pima County Public Library. Sad.
It was exciting to read that Supriya Gandhi's book is called The Emperor Who Never Was: Dara Shukoh in Mughal India. Mughal is another way of writing Mongol. It was exciting to me because the subject of my book, Murshid: A Personal Memoir of Life with American Sufi Samuel L. Lewis, considered himself the reincarnation of Dara Shukoh! I hope my library has the book.
I've been following the happenings in India for a number of years especially when Kashmir's constitution was abrogated....ty for this conversation...
Thanks Ruth, and Ms. Gandhi — I'm embarrassed to say I had no idea this has been happening in India. The general news media in the USA is so insufficient. And that's why I subscribe to you Ruth, and to others located at the side roads of information.
I get the impression we are all students here …. that your thirst for knowledge and truth is a whole lot more important than how much you have drunk, or how long you’ve been drinking. So … hopefully … no need for embarrassment…. otherwise I’m going to be red-faced forever, for how much I don’t know!!! And, like you, I’m also very grateful for the education I am getting from Ruth and her network of brilliant and empathic experts
You interview with (a rather reticent or hesitant ?) Supriya Gandhi was excellent because (thankfully) your questions carried the day. Your interview reinforces that... the playbook of authoritarians across the world is to breakdown the wall that separates of Church and State. Breaking down that wall then allows the political-leader authoritarians to assume the mantle of both political and religious leader aka the "Indoctrinator in Chief"... which allows the political leaders to herd the indoctrinated flock into submission, and punish (in the name of God) those who resist submitting. Think Modi, Think Putin, Think Trump. Think Orban. Think Dueterte.
I have no problem with anyone's practice of religion, but I do have a problem with those who wish to force their "unprovable" religious belief system on the rest of us. Government punishes "actions"... not "beliefs." Religion punishes mere "beliefs." And without separation of Church and State, all of us are set up to be punished in some way (shunned, discriminated against, incarcerated, loss of civil rights, executed like Jesus was, etc) for the sinful orthodoxy of not accepting someone else's "unprovable" beliefs.
God gave us the "free will" of self determination so we can "self determine" our own "Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness." The Bill of Rights protects that God given right of self determination... from government interference. The "Separation of Church and State" doctrine protects that God given, right of self determination from theological interference so we can believe what ever we want to believe (or believe nothing). The separation of Church and State requires that...
* No State prefers religion over no religion, and
* No State prefers one religion over other religions.
History is replete with examples of "injury to mankind" when there is no wall of separation between Church and State...
* Like Galileo when he correctly said... the Sun is the center of the Universe (really our solar system), finally recanting his supposed heliocentric heresy just to avoid Roman Catholic, Capitol Punishment, and live to fight another day.
* Like Joan of Arc when she was burned at the stake at age 19 for the crime of dressing like a man. Can you imagine the horror of death by fire… inflicted by Christianity on a 19 year-old kid in the name of Jesus ???
* Like the supposed Witches of Salem (rapture gone wrong) with so many innocents put to death in the name of Jesus.
* Like John Scopes convicted in Tennessee in 1925 (despite Clarence Darrow’s brilliant representation), all for the crime of teaching Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution along with the story of Adam and Eve. See Inherit the Wind starring Spencer Tracey.
* Like al-Qaida, ISIS, the Taliban (and others) who torture and kill those who don't accept the same "unprovable" religious beliefs they have.
* Like the right wing Christians on the U.S. Supreme Court (Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas, John Roberts, Neil Gorsuch, Brett "I like beer" Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett) who are the aiders and abettors of establishing Christianity as America's national religion through the "free exercise" clause of the 1st Amendment (despite the non-establishment of religion clause of that same 1st Amendment).
The world is in for a bumpy ride, because so many fail to see the political wolves parading around under the mantle of religious robes. For those who do see, many just don't understand the historic damage that occurs when the wall that separates Church and State is breached by self severing politicians.
Fred Lauck
Right on the mark Fred; incredibly good aim and expression, from my point of view, which is nearly mirror like.
Agree wholeheartedly that separation of church and state is critically important. Still. acolytes will continue to try to bring their biases to the formation of public policy. Like freedom itself, eternal vigilance is required.
Always appreciate your important words! Thank you!
Regarding the appropriation of the almost universal human need for the comforts of religion, many people take advantage in addition to politicians. Almost anything can be justified with religious rhetoric. It is just so tempting to hucksters and con artists of every stripe. Just look at Vladimir Krill the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow justifying the war in Ukraine as a "holy" undertaking.
Yet, our world would be so much worse without the positive aspects of religion. Even as an atheist, I would welcome a reformation of religion worldwide that accentuates the positives while minimizing the negatives which would reverse the current trend. Perhaps some form of secular/rational humanism would be an effective antidote but that calls for such a high level of education and the autocrats know that and so undermine the spread intellectualism at every opportunity.