thanks for the reminder of Trump's way of firing people and how many he fired. seems autocrats are born, not made—Trump certainly didn't study these things but he's a textbook autocrat to his rotten marrow.
Rudy Giuliani's second wife, Donna Hanover, learned she had been replaced by a younger model watching Rudy on TV. Even strongman wannabes employ the humiliation tactic.
Your description of the strongmen - and especially comparing Trump to ALL of them and their qualities was perfect. That IS exactly Trump - to humiliate his staff, and the firing of Tillerson via Twitter (I just learned that!). It wasn't just "now and then," it was ALL THE TIME. This is also part of the malignant narcissist disorder description as well.
Fascinating Ruth. A strongman has to humiliate others like a schoolyard bully. But why do they have the constant supply of followers willing to be humiliated? Do you know what the dynamic is for them?
Ellen, I think it's the money. I think the perception that Putin and Trump are rich and successful adds to their appeal for some people. Take away the money and where would that leave them?
Good points. I recall reading Michael Cohen writing about the way he was taken in by Trump’s charisma and glitz. The money and power are part of that. Cohen didn’t wake up until Trump threw him under the bus regarding the Stormy Daniels case and he ended up in a jail cell.
“Russia has nothing” Absolutely this from Merkel, she’s so right on many levels.
But Russia does have a lot of oil and gas profits, illegally embezzled and to clean it, the kleptocrats send it abroad to be laundered. So they do have that.
If political tyrants are like other sociopaths, it's a good bet that they "learned" how to ridicule and humiliate others by being ridiculed and humiliated themselves, repeatedly, in early childhood. Some by profound neglect, like Trump and Putin, and some by severe abuse, like Hitler.
Madeline: Thanks for raising the role of early childhood humiliation, ridicule and profound neglect in the development of children. It more often than not leads to sociopaths, psychopaths, sadists , fascists, abusers, bullies, tyrants, etc. The experiences you listed can be traumatic and serve as foundation for personalities that lacks empathy; this, I would argue, is the common denominator.
Your excellent comment offered as examples Trump, Putin and Hitler.
We need to add Israel’s Benjamin “Bibi”Netanyahu, (BN) to your list. The ongoing Palestinian genocide, apartheid and other war crimes can be usually explained by what unites most if not all fascists; childhood trauma. I would encourage reading a review of the book: ‘Bibi,’ “ … a major 1918 biography of BN by Anshel Pfeffer. The book review, documents the trauma-inducing childhood relationship BN had with his father was written by Noga Tarnopolsky, for the L.A.Times (4/27/18.)
Robert, you're exactly right, and thanks so much for the information on Netanyahu's childhood. I didn't mention him because I didn't have confirmation but it's utterly predictable that people who have been massively traumatized in childhood will somehow reenact the results of that humiliation as they get older, physically stronger, and inwardly determined to avenge the tyrannized child they used to be.
The lesson we must learn in western culture is more tenderness and less shaming of boys from birth onwards. I'll definitely check out your reference. Thanks again!
Keep cranking out this gold, Professor. I saw today that the pro-Russian Republicans in Congress are shilling for Putin by hyper-inflating a new space defense by Russia. My gut tells me this is the old Reagan Star Wars gambit in reverse.
I understand that public humiliation is a tactic of authoritarians--and a particularly cruel one at that. But what is "ritual" about it? The target doesn't appear to be participating voluntarily.
Nadine, I don't know what Ruth would say and I would love to hear her response to your question. I like the term, ritual, because it brings to mind things like the Catholic Church with its pomp and spectacle. I think public humiliation is performed for the sake of the tyrant who wants to flaunt his god-like power over others. I believe that this is a ritual enactment of a longing that the tyrant had as a small child to feel valued and important. It's also a ritual because it needs to be performed regularly and repeatedly in order to inflate the fragile ego of the authoritarian ruler.
Trump seems to routinely humiliate anyone who opposes him in anyway. Doing this publicly also serves as a cautionary message to any in his inner circle who would dare to oppose him in anyway. So I think it's definitely a ritual that the ruler is unconsciously compelled to perform for the sake of his own fragile sense of self.
I just finished reading Tim Snyder's "Blood Lands: The history between Hitler and Stalin" and "The Road To Unfreedom". I'm interested in history, but never learned any of this in my classes. Dictators want us to believe, only they can "fix the problems" and there is nothing else we can do. They want us to think we are helpless. We must battle their "strongman messages" of "inevitability". We can organize and fight sociopathic strongman leaders.
Looking forward to Friday's Zoom meeting. This was a great essay on how strongmen use public humiliation and how Republicans capitulate to the bully.
fascinating, thank you Ruth.
thanks for the reminder of Trump's way of firing people and how many he fired. seems autocrats are born, not made—Trump certainly didn't study these things but he's a textbook autocrat to his rotten marrow.
Thank you for framing these behaviors through the lens of authoritarianism.
Rudy Giuliani's second wife, Donna Hanover, learned she had been replaced by a younger model watching Rudy on TV. Even strongman wannabes employ the humiliation tactic.
Authoritarian figures feed off of degrading others, especially in a public arena! Putin and Trump share this trait!
Your description of the strongmen - and especially comparing Trump to ALL of them and their qualities was perfect. That IS exactly Trump - to humiliate his staff, and the firing of Tillerson via Twitter (I just learned that!). It wasn't just "now and then," it was ALL THE TIME. This is also part of the malignant narcissist disorder description as well.
Didn't Comey learn of his firing through a CNN newscast?
Yes he did.
I look forward to the zoom call meeting Friday.
Fascinating Ruth. A strongman has to humiliate others like a schoolyard bully. But why do they have the constant supply of followers willing to be humiliated? Do you know what the dynamic is for them?
Good question Ellen!
I think Trump supporters are broken souls who fear being humiliated themselves and enjoy seeing others being humiliated instead of themselves.
No doubt true for some, but it seems like an awful lot of broken souls out there.
Ellen, I think it's the money. I think the perception that Putin and Trump are rich and successful adds to their appeal for some people. Take away the money and where would that leave them?
Good points. I recall reading Michael Cohen writing about the way he was taken in by Trump’s charisma and glitz. The money and power are part of that. Cohen didn’t wake up until Trump threw him under the bus regarding the Stormy Daniels case and he ended up in a jail cell.
Brilliant! Thank you Ruth.
Putin very much enjoyed publicly humiliating Trump in front of a global audience, didn’t he?
I still cannot believe Trump survived it with the American polity.
“Russia has nothing” Absolutely this from Merkel, she’s so right on many levels.
But Russia does have a lot of oil and gas profits, illegally embezzled and to clean it, the kleptocrats send it abroad to be laundered. So they do have that.
If political tyrants are like other sociopaths, it's a good bet that they "learned" how to ridicule and humiliate others by being ridiculed and humiliated themselves, repeatedly, in early childhood. Some by profound neglect, like Trump and Putin, and some by severe abuse, like Hitler.
Madeline: Thanks for raising the role of early childhood humiliation, ridicule and profound neglect in the development of children. It more often than not leads to sociopaths, psychopaths, sadists , fascists, abusers, bullies, tyrants, etc. The experiences you listed can be traumatic and serve as foundation for personalities that lacks empathy; this, I would argue, is the common denominator.
Your excellent comment offered as examples Trump, Putin and Hitler.
We need to add Israel’s Benjamin “Bibi”Netanyahu, (BN) to your list. The ongoing Palestinian genocide, apartheid and other war crimes can be usually explained by what unites most if not all fascists; childhood trauma. I would encourage reading a review of the book: ‘Bibi,’ “ … a major 1918 biography of BN by Anshel Pfeffer. The book review, documents the trauma-inducing childhood relationship BN had with his father was written by Noga Tarnopolsky, for the L.A.Times (4/27/18.)
Robert, you're exactly right, and thanks so much for the information on Netanyahu's childhood. I didn't mention him because I didn't have confirmation but it's utterly predictable that people who have been massively traumatized in childhood will somehow reenact the results of that humiliation as they get older, physically stronger, and inwardly determined to avenge the tyrannized child they used to be.
The lesson we must learn in western culture is more tenderness and less shaming of boys from birth onwards. I'll definitely check out your reference. Thanks again!
And speaking of humiliation, you have a southern black man sucking up for a job with a white guy who wanted to lynch his last vice president.
😢
Keep cranking out this gold, Professor. I saw today that the pro-Russian Republicans in Congress are shilling for Putin by hyper-inflating a new space defense by Russia. My gut tells me this is the old Reagan Star Wars gambit in reverse.
I understand that public humiliation is a tactic of authoritarians--and a particularly cruel one at that. But what is "ritual" about it? The target doesn't appear to be participating voluntarily.
Nadine, I don't know what Ruth would say and I would love to hear her response to your question. I like the term, ritual, because it brings to mind things like the Catholic Church with its pomp and spectacle. I think public humiliation is performed for the sake of the tyrant who wants to flaunt his god-like power over others. I believe that this is a ritual enactment of a longing that the tyrant had as a small child to feel valued and important. It's also a ritual because it needs to be performed regularly and repeatedly in order to inflate the fragile ego of the authoritarian ruler.
Trump seems to routinely humiliate anyone who opposes him in anyway. Doing this publicly also serves as a cautionary message to any in his inner circle who would dare to oppose him in anyway. So I think it's definitely a ritual that the ruler is unconsciously compelled to perform for the sake of his own fragile sense of self.
Stalin was a virtuoso at this technique. Putin has sought to rehabilitate Stalin.
Stalin was a paranoid sociopath and killed millions. It's no coincidence. That's what these people do.
Not at all.
A coincidence.
Ted Bundy, John Gacy, Jeffry Dahmer, Josef Mengele.... all sociopaths, all killers.
I just finished reading Tim Snyder's "Blood Lands: The history between Hitler and Stalin" and "The Road To Unfreedom". I'm interested in history, but never learned any of this in my classes. Dictators want us to believe, only they can "fix the problems" and there is nothing else we can do. They want us to think we are helpless. We must battle their "strongman messages" of "inevitability". We can organize and fight sociopathic strongman leaders.