This is all so terrifying. My friend in FL sent me a screenshot of an email from their high school saying that there will be no psychology or sociology classes this year bc there are no approved books for them!!! If Trump or DeSantis gets elected President this will be everywhere
Agree. While schools are funded through local tax entities, surely there are federal monies/ grants that are employed throughout the country. Do Florida taxpayers want to lose federal dollars? (like rebellious teens 'losing allowance'?)
I enjoy your passion, Marycat. I will be equally passionate, observing that I am justifiably terrified: the idiocy is soooooo deep that DeathSantis COULD become our next President, because the MAGA-GOP is rigging the election system so badly… and NOTHING (not even a conviction of Trump for dozens of heinous crimes) will give pause to 10s of millions of voters to reconsider voting in a dictator. I hold onto Ruth’s optimism (to never underestimate the American people) … and I will participate in the Good Fight … but I will suggest, it’s a fight that does not have to end well for many of us
We would have said it was ridiculous that a US govt administration could tear babies from their mothers at our border. We would have said it was ridiculous that a President of the US could tell his citizens to drink bleach to ward off a serious illness. We would have said it was ridiculous that the Republican party would ever openly promote Vladimir Putin and Russian propaganda. This may be ridiculous, but it is utterly terrifying. And that's because there are millionaire and billionaire-run US think tanks providing all of these ideas and talking points, funding all of the resources and running the judiciary to make sure that these ridiculous tactics and strategies do happen. Even if DeSantis doesn't make it to the WH, this is a the direction that the party is going and it's proliferating across the US with unbelievable speed.
Agree, and to the billionaires & millionaires: How much money do you really need? e-gads!* The money-game must diminish. Are these people sleeping with Excel spreadsheets & bank statements at night to feel good?
Well said Marycat, enough of this "I'm so afraid, what are we gonna do?" pearl clutching shrinking from dreaded confrontation! Like bullies everywhere, when one gets right back in their face they tend to collapse like a cheap lawn chair sat on by a fat guy! People, RESIST!!!
We also need to stop looking for a savior, as we are the only ones who can save ourselves, then get educated and start playing hardball, as a political party+++
I am holding on to hope that all of this is going to back fire. Here in Florida, it feels like living in an occupied country sometimes. And this is what tyranny is all about--stifling conversation, creativity, imagination and ingenuity. It always fails--but after how much is destroyed?
Don’t be so sure it will fail -- this insidious and we ALL must speak up & push back - everywhere we can. I’m shocked at the support for this -- I was concerned ab
Of the entire academic field in Germany, Hitler's most hated intellectuals were psychologists/psychiatrists. He knew they could see through his propaganda. Sounds like DeSantis is following Hitler's lead.
My husband's nephew and his family have lived abroad off and on (Shangai, Ethopia, Qatar). John is in teaching/administration. They bought a house in Florida and guess they're going to be living there between overseas jobs.
In the course of the past 12 or so years, their children have become citizens of the world. They're both in their teens. I simply can NOT imagine John subjecting himself to this kind of education system. They bought the house in FA because it was big 'n cheap.....and near his wife's family.
I have no idea how long they'll be able to tolerate the conditions in FA. but hopefully his kids won't be exposed to this shit.
The mention of the United Nations reminded me of Fred Koch, owner of Koch Manufacturing, whom I worked with for two summers while attending college, the Koch brothers' father. Fred was a significant contributor to the start-up John Birch Society.
In the beginning, the John Birch Society advocated against the United Nations. They said the United Nations would come in and take over the United States. That was one of the first disinformation and active measures I was aware of. It's taken me 50 years to understand what happened then with the John Birch Society.
That's the reason for my question about their funding. I'm guessing that the Koch Foundation provides money and or support to Prager University.
I have no proof, but I've followed the Koch brothers and their funding practices for several years.
To help you understand some of my logic, I know that Fred Koch provided consulting for Joseph Stalin after World War II to produce petroleum products. I have read that Fred Koch built 15 refineries in Russia, which was his funding source to bring those refineries to the United States.
Your question, Dr. Liz, sent me googling. I thought I knew but forgot. Bill, twin to David, tried to take over Koch industries in court and failed. The simpler answer is power and money, i.e greed... maybe. I couldn't find any court records to confirm or refute that, but further research revealed that Koch Industries were stealing oil from Native Americans, primarily nut not limited to the Osage tribe in Oklahoma.
Bill discovered that and attempted to "fix it."
of mevthat implies a modicum of morality on Bill's part and may speak to his attempted takeover.
Again, nothing I've found so far confirms or denies that possibility
The thing that concerns me most about the Koch story is the long term connection with russian oil. Particularly that Koch Industries are still buying oil there, and supporting Putins senseless attack on Ukraine 🇺🇦
Stephen, I can’t say much publicly bc of confidentially constraints per my Church.
Your summations are right on target. The brothers’ fall out was all over the media here in Wichita, KS in the 80’s and early 90’s. One of the best resources is the Wichita Eagle,our local newspaper. they had excellent and honest commentators. It seemed strange to me that in the mid 90’s this award winning local paper was gutted and bought out. Many of my friends lost there jobs due to “computerization” and “downsizing.” newspapers.com may give you a broader perspective than googling.
So glad you can see through all the fake, misinformation propaganda re this strange family even way back then.
As I I wrote in my recent book, Commissar Conservatives: How Laissez-faire Libertarianism Is Disturbingly Similar to Communism, they are the ones copying Leninist tactics; they are they are the ones trying to indoctrinating the masses. They fit the definition to a tee:
commissar
[ kom-uh-sahr, kom-uh-sahr ]
noun
the head of any of the major governmental divisions of the U.S.S.R.: called minister since 1946.
an official in any communist government whose duties include political indoctrination, detection of political deviation, etc.
Terrifying! Glad Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost represents us in Congress & Rep. Anna V. Eskamani represents us in the Florida State Senate! Thank you, Professor Ben-Ghiat for all your work!
On Professor Ben-Ghiat's instigation I went to the PRAGERU website. I decided to click on TBH History to see what was happening there--and it was frightening. There is a smug glibness conveyed as they invited viewers to accept the idea that "most history" is "boring leftist propaganda." Instead, they say that they are offering a different way to "consume history" and the suggestion is young people might like history more if presented in the PragerU, TBH style. Orwellian and disturbing. What I saw was the mutilation of history for political purposes. For example: watching the "segment on the origins of the American Revolution" according to TBH History, was "through the looking glass" experience. In their view, the American Revolution was based primarily on Christian, biblical principles. Just enough "facts" swim in the slick narratives to appear objective. Ideology arrives surreptitiously. The danger--the trick--is to project that this kind of distortion is what "the Left" does to history--and "TBH History" is a fun, antidote to the boring left wing history you learn in school. TBH History provides skits, and "honest recaps" as the smart young person's alternative choice. Seductive and sinister. Also--I took a moment to see the unit called "Unapologetic" where an "Unwoke" critic of the BARBIE film (Amala Ekpunobi), shared her thoughts. The presentation was a subtle, clever, and underhanded opinion piece that injected arch-conservative thoughtlessness into the narrative. Of course, since it was "opinion," you are invited to form your own judgments. PragerU "twists" reality, and this is a formidable anti-democratic voice--presenting itself as democratic. I had no idea. Thank you.
The number of people buying this crap is mind bending. Speaking with these people is to witness collective delusion. Prager promotes post-truth, where emotion supersedes facts for the purpose of the political subordination of reality. They covertly promote postmodernism, the concept that discounts the idea of objective truth. Of course, they play on peoples' confirmation bias as well, so it's an easy sell.
These politicians who support the likes of PragerU only have a job because We The People elect them. So find a way, however big or small to make them get fired.
Originally from NJ, I've lived in Ft. Myers, Fl since 1986, my father born here, 1917. What we knew in the past was if you were liked or dislike by a southerner , you knew it. Conversely, northerners who didn't like you hid their feelings With that, we felt we'd take our chances with southerners.
Now, I live in a society where 3-out-of-4 people "aren't like me, don't like me", many from the North.
Everywhere you look, there are bumper stickers, window stickers, flags, t-shirts that denigrate Liberalism. We're 22mm population here, soon, 26.5mm, and the CONservative ranks are growing, all around me.
There are few Liberals who sport pro-Biden bumper stickers. Saw and elderly lady driving her car yesterday, and I tipped my hat to her. In this World, that is courageous.
I'm sick of this madness, but my sanity is intact thru reading, education, and the knowledge and wisdom that you, Ruth Ben-Ghiat presents here, my joining Lucid, and thru further readings which discuss what's ahead should we not heed History.
Unfortunately, with so many "Trumpers" here in Florida, it is dangerous to sport any type of pro-Biden bumper sticker or shirt, especially now that we have a "no permit required" gun carry law.
I don't even like thinking about the guns. I am now careful of any and all public interactions I have with folks. AND--I suspect nearly every driver around me is packing heat. BUT--hey we can't give in to despair. We are not alone.
yes that's what I feel. Liberals would not take exception to others' views. We just tolerate it, and move on. Many (not all) conservatives would not do what we would do.
Thank Goddess for Maxwell Frost and all who fight on the front lines in Florida. Believe it or not this was once a state filled with powerful Democrats. What has happened here was systematic and perverse and littered with the capitulation and collaboration of People Who Should Have Known Better. In my nightmares I chase them on my broomstick. In daylight I wonder whether they feel guilty or have rationalized it all. In the disinfecting sunlight I wonder what I myself did not do to stop it. Florida needs a committed and organized #Resistance. The Dems have a track record of letting us burn down. You can’t even run a righteous candidate here in most races. So who will help us save us?
Around six years ago I started seeing Prager U on Facebook, so I saw their videos and recognized it as propaganda for a fascist movement. I still remember one video quite vividly, claiming that fascism was a far left concept. Once they had convinced viewers that fascism was what the left was doing in this nation, then Trump surely couldn't be fascist. The comments section of these posts was loaded with people whom had lost touch with reality. They were very angry. I don't see Prager on Facebook much anymore...... a good thing! By the time Facebook realized that Prager was dangerous, they had already bamboozled millions.
To install fascism, its proponents must demonize democracy. Democracy and its virtues are considered 'woke', while fascism and its vices are considered righteous. It's a massive case of psychological projection. The number of those on the right that are falling for this post-truth propaganda is stunning.
Bringing fascism to the schools is similar to the Hitler Youth (Hitlerjugend) program. But to our MAGA folks, this is called patriotism. It is collective delusion.
No need to be terrified, Mary.
Despicable and depraved minds!
Not sure why they don't call themselves "Goebel University"
Probably because no one would know how to pronounce "Goebel"
or spell it
LOLOL
Just like I did! Missed a "B"
Goebbels
This is all so terrifying. My friend in FL sent me a screenshot of an email from their high school saying that there will be no psychology or sociology classes this year bc there are no approved books for them!!! If Trump or DeSantis gets elected President this will be everywhere
But it is scary in the manner that young people can easily be seduced into the narrative and accept it as "smart" stuff.
Agree. While schools are funded through local tax entities, surely there are federal monies/ grants that are employed throughout the country. Do Florida taxpayers want to lose federal dollars? (like rebellious teens 'losing allowance'?)
Not an insignificant number of Millions of US children getting mainlined disinformation in their churches
I enjoy your passion, Marycat. I will be equally passionate, observing that I am justifiably terrified: the idiocy is soooooo deep that DeathSantis COULD become our next President, because the MAGA-GOP is rigging the election system so badly… and NOTHING (not even a conviction of Trump for dozens of heinous crimes) will give pause to 10s of millions of voters to reconsider voting in a dictator. I hold onto Ruth’s optimism (to never underestimate the American people) … and I will participate in the Good Fight … but I will suggest, it’s a fight that does not have to end well for many of us
I don't think everything is propaganda, that way leads to defeatism and depoliticization - which is exactly what authoritarians want.
The Congressional Black Caucus is asking the DOE to get involved
Vulnerable. Teens can be smarter than adults though, in matters of the heart.
We would have said it was ridiculous that a US govt administration could tear babies from their mothers at our border. We would have said it was ridiculous that a President of the US could tell his citizens to drink bleach to ward off a serious illness. We would have said it was ridiculous that the Republican party would ever openly promote Vladimir Putin and Russian propaganda. This may be ridiculous, but it is utterly terrifying. And that's because there are millionaire and billionaire-run US think tanks providing all of these ideas and talking points, funding all of the resources and running the judiciary to make sure that these ridiculous tactics and strategies do happen. Even if DeSantis doesn't make it to the WH, this is a the direction that the party is going and it's proliferating across the US with unbelievable speed.
Agree, and to the billionaires & millionaires: How much money do you really need? e-gads!* The money-game must diminish. Are these people sleeping with Excel spreadsheets & bank statements at night to feel good?
Absolutely necessary to thwart these idiots!
Well said!!!!!
Well said Marycat, enough of this "I'm so afraid, what are we gonna do?" pearl clutching shrinking from dreaded confrontation! Like bullies everywhere, when one gets right back in their face they tend to collapse like a cheap lawn chair sat on by a fat guy! People, RESIST!!!
We need better than personal resistance, imho.
And we need better than the Democratic Party, imho, too.
Where are our Navalnys?
We also need to stop looking for a savior, as we are the only ones who can save ourselves, then get educated and start playing hardball, as a political party+++
.........there will be no psychology or sociology classes this year bc there are no approved books for them!!! ........Sheesh 👎👎
Agree, what a loss for young minds.
I am holding on to hope that all of this is going to back fire. Here in Florida, it feels like living in an occupied country sometimes. And this is what tyranny is all about--stifling conversation, creativity, imagination and ingenuity. It always fails--but after how much is destroyed?
Don’t be so sure it will fail -- this insidious and we ALL must speak up & push back - everywhere we can. I’m shocked at the support for this -- I was concerned ab
Very good question, Tony
My friend, look up Dr. Gerhart Riegner. He gave us an example to follow when fighting Fascism. He also answered Tony’s question.
Riegner’s Telegram
https://share.icloud.com/photos/07amejrW5-xTdG8aqSele6jZw
The phoenix always rises from the ashes of destruction.
Of the entire academic field in Germany, Hitler's most hated intellectuals were psychologists/psychiatrists. He knew they could see through his propaganda. Sounds like DeSantis is following Hitler's lead.
Goebbels earned his PhD in Philology. One of him did more damage, then 100 Psychiatrists, did good, or bad.
Well said!!!
what a loss. These classes are so critical at that juncture of life. How do the teens feel?
My husband's nephew and his family have lived abroad off and on (Shangai, Ethopia, Qatar). John is in teaching/administration. They bought a house in Florida and guess they're going to be living there between overseas jobs.
In the course of the past 12 or so years, their children have become citizens of the world. They're both in their teens. I simply can NOT imagine John subjecting himself to this kind of education system. They bought the house in FA because it was big 'n cheap.....and near his wife's family.
I have no idea how long they'll be able to tolerate the conditions in FA. but hopefully his kids won't be exposed to this shit.
The Florida governor says, "Florida is where woke goes to die." Good luck with that. Who the hell knows what "woke" is? I don't.
How are they funded? Is there a tuition charge, grants, private investors? Do they even disclose their funding sources?
The mention of the United Nations reminded me of Fred Koch, owner of Koch Manufacturing, whom I worked with for two summers while attending college, the Koch brothers' father. Fred was a significant contributor to the start-up John Birch Society.
In the beginning, the John Birch Society advocated against the United Nations. They said the United Nations would come in and take over the United States. That was one of the first disinformation and active measures I was aware of. It's taken me 50 years to understand what happened then with the John Birch Society.
That's the reason for my question about their funding. I'm guessing that the Koch Foundation provides money and or support to Prager University.
I have no proof, but I've followed the Koch brothers and their funding practices for several years.
To help you understand some of my logic, I know that Fred Koch provided consulting for Joseph Stalin after World War II to produce petroleum products. I have read that Fred Koch built 15 refineries in Russia, which was his funding source to bring those refineries to the United States.
Stephen… I believe you nailed it! I live and work in Kochland (33 yrs now) and know some of the family on a different level than most folks ever see.
I can’t say much publicly but I can l leave you with this thought…. why do you think Bill Koch is estranged from the Family?
Your question, Dr. Liz, sent me googling. I thought I knew but forgot. Bill, twin to David, tried to take over Koch industries in court and failed. The simpler answer is power and money, i.e greed... maybe. I couldn't find any court records to confirm or refute that, but further research revealed that Koch Industries were stealing oil from Native Americans, primarily nut not limited to the Osage tribe in Oklahoma.
Bill discovered that and attempted to "fix it."
of mevthat implies a modicum of morality on Bill's part and may speak to his attempted takeover.
Again, nothing I've found so far confirms or denies that possibility
Since you are much closer to the family than I ever want to be, I would like to get your take.
The thing that concerns me most about the Koch story is the long term connection with russian oil. Particularly that Koch Industries are still buying oil there, and supporting Putins senseless attack on Ukraine 🇺🇦
Stephen, I can’t say much publicly bc of confidentially constraints per my Church.
Your summations are right on target. The brothers’ fall out was all over the media here in Wichita, KS in the 80’s and early 90’s. One of the best resources is the Wichita Eagle,our local newspaper. they had excellent and honest commentators. It seemed strange to me that in the mid 90’s this award winning local paper was gutted and bought out. Many of my friends lost there jobs due to “computerization” and “downsizing.” newspapers.com may give you a broader perspective than googling.
So glad you can see through all the fake, misinformation propaganda re this strange family even way back then.
OMGosh!
The March to national ignorance continues. This can't stand.
As I I wrote in my recent book, Commissar Conservatives: How Laissez-faire Libertarianism Is Disturbingly Similar to Communism, they are the ones copying Leninist tactics; they are they are the ones trying to indoctrinating the masses. They fit the definition to a tee:
commissar
[ kom-uh-sahr, kom-uh-sahr ]
noun
the head of any of the major governmental divisions of the U.S.S.R.: called minister since 1946.
an official in any communist government whose duties include political indoctrination, detection of political deviation, etc.
Terrifying! Glad Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost represents us in Congress & Rep. Anna V. Eskamani represents us in the Florida State Senate! Thank you, Professor Ben-Ghiat for all your work!
On Professor Ben-Ghiat's instigation I went to the PRAGERU website. I decided to click on TBH History to see what was happening there--and it was frightening. There is a smug glibness conveyed as they invited viewers to accept the idea that "most history" is "boring leftist propaganda." Instead, they say that they are offering a different way to "consume history" and the suggestion is young people might like history more if presented in the PragerU, TBH style. Orwellian and disturbing. What I saw was the mutilation of history for political purposes. For example: watching the "segment on the origins of the American Revolution" according to TBH History, was "through the looking glass" experience. In their view, the American Revolution was based primarily on Christian, biblical principles. Just enough "facts" swim in the slick narratives to appear objective. Ideology arrives surreptitiously. The danger--the trick--is to project that this kind of distortion is what "the Left" does to history--and "TBH History" is a fun, antidote to the boring left wing history you learn in school. TBH History provides skits, and "honest recaps" as the smart young person's alternative choice. Seductive and sinister. Also--I took a moment to see the unit called "Unapologetic" where an "Unwoke" critic of the BARBIE film (Amala Ekpunobi), shared her thoughts. The presentation was a subtle, clever, and underhanded opinion piece that injected arch-conservative thoughtlessness into the narrative. Of course, since it was "opinion," you are invited to form your own judgments. PragerU "twists" reality, and this is a formidable anti-democratic voice--presenting itself as democratic. I had no idea. Thank you.
The number of people buying this crap is mind bending. Speaking with these people is to witness collective delusion. Prager promotes post-truth, where emotion supersedes facts for the purpose of the political subordination of reality. They covertly promote postmodernism, the concept that discounts the idea of objective truth. Of course, they play on peoples' confirmation bias as well, so it's an easy sell.
They have been around for quite some time. They are not the worse, but right in there, pure bullshit.
These politicians who support the likes of PragerU only have a job because We The People elect them. So find a way, however big or small to make them get fired.
Originally from NJ, I've lived in Ft. Myers, Fl since 1986, my father born here, 1917. What we knew in the past was if you were liked or dislike by a southerner , you knew it. Conversely, northerners who didn't like you hid their feelings With that, we felt we'd take our chances with southerners.
Now, I live in a society where 3-out-of-4 people "aren't like me, don't like me", many from the North.
Everywhere you look, there are bumper stickers, window stickers, flags, t-shirts that denigrate Liberalism. We're 22mm population here, soon, 26.5mm, and the CONservative ranks are growing, all around me.
There are few Liberals who sport pro-Biden bumper stickers. Saw and elderly lady driving her car yesterday, and I tipped my hat to her. In this World, that is courageous.
I'm sick of this madness, but my sanity is intact thru reading, education, and the knowledge and wisdom that you, Ruth Ben-Ghiat presents here, my joining Lucid, and thru further readings which discuss what's ahead should we not heed History.
Thank You, Ruth. Be Well, All.
Unfortunately, with so many "Trumpers" here in Florida, it is dangerous to sport any type of pro-Biden bumper sticker or shirt, especially now that we have a "no permit required" gun carry law.
Is there a way you can connect with other like-minded folks without being threatened?
Be careful, fascism normalizes violence.
I don't even like thinking about the guns. I am now careful of any and all public interactions I have with folks. AND--I suspect nearly every driver around me is packing heat. BUT--hey we can't give in to despair. We are not alone.
that's an aspect of fascism: the fear to think and speak differently.
yes that's what I feel. Liberals would not take exception to others' views. We just tolerate it, and move on. Many (not all) conservatives would not do what we would do.
I completely agree with you Michael.
thx Tony.
Thank Goddess for Maxwell Frost and all who fight on the front lines in Florida. Believe it or not this was once a state filled with powerful Democrats. What has happened here was systematic and perverse and littered with the capitulation and collaboration of People Who Should Have Known Better. In my nightmares I chase them on my broomstick. In daylight I wonder whether they feel guilty or have rationalized it all. In the disinfecting sunlight I wonder what I myself did not do to stop it. Florida needs a committed and organized #Resistance. The Dems have a track record of letting us burn down. You can’t even run a righteous candidate here in most races. So who will help us save us?
Around six years ago I started seeing Prager U on Facebook, so I saw their videos and recognized it as propaganda for a fascist movement. I still remember one video quite vividly, claiming that fascism was a far left concept. Once they had convinced viewers that fascism was what the left was doing in this nation, then Trump surely couldn't be fascist. The comments section of these posts was loaded with people whom had lost touch with reality. They were very angry. I don't see Prager on Facebook much anymore...... a good thing! By the time Facebook realized that Prager was dangerous, they had already bamboozled millions.
To install fascism, its proponents must demonize democracy. Democracy and its virtues are considered 'woke', while fascism and its vices are considered righteous. It's a massive case of psychological projection. The number of those on the right that are falling for this post-truth propaganda is stunning.
Bringing fascism to the schools is similar to the Hitler Youth (Hitlerjugend) program. But to our MAGA folks, this is called patriotism. It is collective delusion.
Steve….excellent!!!