Thank you, Ruth, for wading through the sewer and summarizing the various manifestations of unfortunate expressions. Breathing in and out to keep my equilibrium.
Thank you, Ruth, for writing this. I am terrified what the next 2 years may bring due to the insidious nature of repeated hate speech. Even though major cities are liberal, alarmingly, "researchers found that reports of hate crimes against LGBTQ people in major cities increased by 51% in 2021."
When my Con Law professor opened his lecture with, "There is no such thing as free speech," we all gasped. But, as we learned, there IS NO such thing as free speech. Speech has always been regulated, from 'fire in the theater' to incitement, to slander and more. I grind my teeth when I hear Musk, et. al. maundering on about free speech, and I'll soon have to consult my dentist. Many countries have grappled with hate speech and crafted wise and functional responses. We don't have to invent this wheel.
I’m pretty poor money wise but I’ve been donating to the ACLU for many years now. It’s one of the best organizations we can depend on to protect individual and group rights in the face of encroaching fascism. I’m with you, Art. Diane Baker, you are missing the point, sadly. No I don’t attend or like KKK marches, but the ACLU has also fought AGAINST their many crimes, solved murders.
Tell that to Heather Heyer. A hate march is hate speech. Either we uphold the Holmes Court and risk a Civil War, or we do this. If we uphold the Holmes decision, Donald Trump needs to be charged, now. The ACLU backs the Klan on the free speech clause, not the march. Our Democracy is at a pivot point. The extreme elements against democracy are using our laws against the Union. We either fight back, which we haven't, or we will lose. The ACLU is not wrong. They know banning some speech will lead to others. Marycat is correct. Point is: Do we change some of our Democracy, as protection, or do we lose it. ANSWER, you will never get an amendment passed in this country, with our present divide. Our Nation has been being dismantled for some time. I agree with you, the extremists are using our freedoms to destroy us. Now what ?
The Charlottesville march was not a peacful march. Its hate speech quickly turned into violence. This is a classic progression in the beginnings of fascism. The promotion of victimhood by the leader turns to hate speech against those whom have done them wrong; then vengeance becomes the next step in order to rectify the wrong. To stop this progression of anger, the nation needs to start at the beginning of the cycle that is the root cause of our current hate speech and its consequences. We need to ban the use of fascist politics. Like you say, that will not be easy, given our divided nation. The historical danger of fascism is clear. It's just a matter of resolve to prevent it from metastasizing.
"Do not forget that the current wave of antisemitism and other hate speech is tied to designs to take down American democracy." Your words, whether in writing or on tv, always chill me to the bone.
Great article, for those who might think that antisemitism is an American issue. Or that it is disconnected from the push toward Authoritarianism. I rather enjoyed the article not because of the hate and venom it calls out, but because it's truth telling through and through
Thank you so much for bringing to the forefront these absolutely pivotal and critical topics this weekend, Ruth! Thank you thank you!! I will write more later this weekend after I whittle down some of my end of semester grading. Best wishes and thanks again!
It does seem that we are perpetually wrestling to the mat on this... I struggle with how best to respond to a well-intentioned neighbor with whom I enjoy friendly relations who shouted over the creek one day that the anti-semitism on the rise was disturbing and if we ever needed any support that my husband and I could look to him and his family. But when I use the public voting data to discern who in my precinct is or is not voting, I see that he cannot be bothered to vote in most elections. Thereby effectively keeping us in a perpetual state of defense from the narrow minded, bigoted people running for school board, county sheriff or state representative.
Fascism has long been about the division of society, with hate speech being the primary mechanism to accomplish this. Fascism's social Darwinism is alive and well in this nation and has been accepted by the GOP. It's a division mechanism that legitimizes a dominance and submission mindset in society. It is the hatred of the so called "takers", while glorifying the so call "makers". It builds a wall between groups and legitimizes the punishment of the so called unworthy. If we consider the mental state of those pushing this scenario, we see many sociopaths/psychopaths using the fascism platform to promote their abnormal ambitions. Their grandiose self image is all about dominance and submission. This trickles down into their management style of societal division and hate. We already know that Trump is a sociopath. Kanye has some sort of mental problem, although I'm not sure at this point what it is. It's too soon to tell about Musk but there is a good chance that he has some sort of grandiosity issue.
There is a connection between hate speech in leadership and mental illness.
Technically, you are correct, however the seriousness of sociopathy/psychopathy are far greater to society than what are considered mental illnesses. It is so easy to minimize the seriousness of antisocial personality disorders because they do not have the mental illness moniker.
Indeed. I see Trump as having Machiavellianism, secondary psychopathy, narcissism and sadism. This is known as the Dark Tetrad. This is much more dangerous than a person with schizophrenia.
Trump probably needs to be put in an institution for the criminally insane, to protect society from his wrath. Our prison population has a very high % of sociopaths within it.... and for good reason. Those with no conscience commit crimes.
It feels like a slow moving car crash... It feels like a frog being boiled in water... There's plenty of metaphors to explain the rise of fascism in the United States and beyond.
What first drew me to Ruth several years ago (before she published Strongmen) was her ability to explain history in such a way that it came alive. This piece is a great example of her talents.
I sensed that antisemitism,neo nazism and fascism would come back to the United States. I've been following it for over 40 years... But I could never imagine that a hardcore Holocaust denier would be having dinner with the former president of the United States.
Sadly, I feel the only thing left to say is that the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
The economic experiment that was esablished during the Reagan adminstration, led to the deindustrialization of America and created a pathway for fascism to flourish. Once the middle class had their jobs outsourced, they became angry and looked for a hero outside of the established political sphere to save them. Trump was their man who promised great things, while selling them on fascism. The sad part is, that they don't even realize that it was fascism that they bought.
Marycat, I'm trying to explain to you that there has never been free speech. Shouting fire in a crowded theater is speech, which is prohibited. Slander is prohibited and many other forms of speech. While you're correct that we can't use the standard of, "I don't like this," speech has current limits, past limits, and with absolute certainty, future limits. Many countries have put limits on 'hate speech.' Some 'odious/ugly' speech falls into this category, other 'odious/ugly' speech does not. No country has ever allowed complete free speech. I am open to learning from other countries' approaches. This is not abrogation the First Amendment, any more than slander or incitement, both of which are unprotected speech. Please read the cited article in full for one country's approach.
Divisive times for the denizens of America and the world, with Musk allowing a platform of fear and hatred! Hopefully your excellent contributions in the media, open the eyes of the unctuous derps longing for either authoritarian or fascist control of our country!
Ruth: This was a very necessary piece. The only reason House Judiciary GOP took down their tweet is: the quiet part was said out loud. The tweet stayed up through ‘DEFCON 3 on the Jews’ and prior. They still agree; they just don’t want it to be obvious. Thank you as always for making us think!
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Karl Popper
If we tolerate fascist speech, due to our freedom of speech mandate, we will find out just how intolerant fascists can be when they get into power. We wouldn't like their one party system. They wouldn't tolerate the democracy that we would want.
The First Amendment of the constitution protects the “freedom of speech” and the “freedom of the press,” but when a false claim causes harm to someone or a group, “defamation laws” and these constitutional protections are at odds with each other. Defamation laws protect people who may be damaged by false claims. Also, when a false claim is written down it is often called “libel.” Defamation has been used to limit both “freedom of speech” and “freedom of the press.”
I remember reading somewhere that there are no “false opinions/ideas,” however, there are indeed “false facts,” but these are NOT protected under the First Amendment. The late U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) is famous for saying, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” In addition, it was Kellyanne Conway a Republican and Trump campaign manager who brought to current Republican dialogue the false idea of something called “alternative facts” which were nothing more than her version of "false facts" that again are NOT protected under the First Amendment!
Recently, former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich is pushing the important ideas/strategies of using more of our “defamation law” to combat and use as a essential weapon against right-wing media LIES and MISINFORMATION such as was used in the Alex Jones Case where he had to pay millions in a defamation law violation to the parents of the Sandy Hook victims. Also, Fox News may have to pay more than a billion for false claims about the 2020 election as well as pay Dominion Election Systems over the same false 2020 election claims. Sarah Palin filed a “defamation claim” against the New York Times recently but lost with that one – perhaps it’s a Republican thing….LOL.
Anyway, democrats/progressives may want to consider using “defamation law” and “suing” that has been around since these constitutional protections have been put in place, as a method to lessen the “falsehoods” coming from Republican extremist media and other misinformation sources!
Thank you, Ruth, for wading through the sewer and summarizing the various manifestations of unfortunate expressions. Breathing in and out to keep my equilibrium.
Thank you, Ruth, for writing this. I am terrified what the next 2 years may bring due to the insidious nature of repeated hate speech. Even though major cities are liberal, alarmingly, "researchers found that reports of hate crimes against LGBTQ people in major cities increased by 51% in 2021."
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/right-wing-influencers-media-double-anti-lgbtq-rhetoric-wake-colorado-rcna58371
I know. All types of hate speech and thus hate crimes are up
Explanation of hate speech legislation in Canada, one of many countries who have tackled this:
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201825E#:~:text=Under%20section%20319(1)%2C,of%20a%20summary%20conviction%20offence.
When my Con Law professor opened his lecture with, "There is no such thing as free speech," we all gasped. But, as we learned, there IS NO such thing as free speech. Speech has always been regulated, from 'fire in the theater' to incitement, to slander and more. I grind my teeth when I hear Musk, et. al. maundering on about free speech, and I'll soon have to consult my dentist. Many countries have grappled with hate speech and crafted wise and functional responses. We don't have to invent this wheel.
Authoritarians use the freedoms of a democracy to take it down and replace it with their nonsense. It's time to ban authoritarian speech.
That misses the point I made, Marycat. Can I clarify for you? I’d be happy to.
ACLU defends the KKK to march for a reason.
And I exercised my right to never give them another dime.
That's silly. They do a lot of good. One of the frontrunners in LGBTQ rights, as well as voting rights.
True, but I just can't do it. I give plenty to others.
I’m pretty poor money wise but I’ve been donating to the ACLU for many years now. It’s one of the best organizations we can depend on to protect individual and group rights in the face of encroaching fascism. I’m with you, Art. Diane Baker, you are missing the point, sadly. No I don’t attend or like KKK marches, but the ACLU has also fought AGAINST their many crimes, solved murders.
A peaceful march and hate speech are two different things.
Tell that to Heather Heyer. A hate march is hate speech. Either we uphold the Holmes Court and risk a Civil War, or we do this. If we uphold the Holmes decision, Donald Trump needs to be charged, now. The ACLU backs the Klan on the free speech clause, not the march. Our Democracy is at a pivot point. The extreme elements against democracy are using our laws against the Union. We either fight back, which we haven't, or we will lose. The ACLU is not wrong. They know banning some speech will lead to others. Marycat is correct. Point is: Do we change some of our Democracy, as protection, or do we lose it. ANSWER, you will never get an amendment passed in this country, with our present divide. Our Nation has been being dismantled for some time. I agree with you, the extremists are using our freedoms to destroy us. Now what ?
The Charlottesville march was not a peacful march. Its hate speech quickly turned into violence. This is a classic progression in the beginnings of fascism. The promotion of victimhood by the leader turns to hate speech against those whom have done them wrong; then vengeance becomes the next step in order to rectify the wrong. To stop this progression of anger, the nation needs to start at the beginning of the cycle that is the root cause of our current hate speech and its consequences. We need to ban the use of fascist politics. Like you say, that will not be easy, given our divided nation. The historical danger of fascism is clear. It's just a matter of resolve to prevent it from metastasizing.
Question is: Is hate speech an incitement ? The Courts of Holmes, Brandenburg vs Ohio and now, Alito in October, all have something to say.
Trump called Covid -19 the China virus and suddenly there was a rash of anti-Asian hate crime here. Cause and effect? It sure looks like it.
"Do not forget that the current wave of antisemitism and other hate speech is tied to designs to take down American democracy." Your words, whether in writing or on tv, always chill me to the bone.
Absolutely frightening and disgusting, one thing we can do is boycott Tesla ….
Great article, for those who might think that antisemitism is an American issue. Or that it is disconnected from the push toward Authoritarianism. I rather enjoyed the article not because of the hate and venom it calls out, but because it's truth telling through and through
Thank you so much for bringing to the forefront these absolutely pivotal and critical topics this weekend, Ruth! Thank you thank you!! I will write more later this weekend after I whittle down some of my end of semester grading. Best wishes and thanks again!
It does seem that we are perpetually wrestling to the mat on this... I struggle with how best to respond to a well-intentioned neighbor with whom I enjoy friendly relations who shouted over the creek one day that the anti-semitism on the rise was disturbing and if we ever needed any support that my husband and I could look to him and his family. But when I use the public voting data to discern who in my precinct is or is not voting, I see that he cannot be bothered to vote in most elections. Thereby effectively keeping us in a perpetual state of defense from the narrow minded, bigoted people running for school board, county sheriff or state representative.
Fascism has long been about the division of society, with hate speech being the primary mechanism to accomplish this. Fascism's social Darwinism is alive and well in this nation and has been accepted by the GOP. It's a division mechanism that legitimizes a dominance and submission mindset in society. It is the hatred of the so called "takers", while glorifying the so call "makers". It builds a wall between groups and legitimizes the punishment of the so called unworthy. If we consider the mental state of those pushing this scenario, we see many sociopaths/psychopaths using the fascism platform to promote their abnormal ambitions. Their grandiose self image is all about dominance and submission. This trickles down into their management style of societal division and hate. We already know that Trump is a sociopath. Kanye has some sort of mental problem, although I'm not sure at this point what it is. It's too soon to tell about Musk but there is a good chance that he has some sort of grandiosity issue.
There is a connection between hate speech in leadership and mental illness.
Yup, if in fact one recognizes Axis 1 and 2.
Technically, you are correct, however the seriousness of sociopathy/psychopathy are far greater to society than what are considered mental illnesses. It is so easy to minimize the seriousness of antisocial personality disorders because they do not have the mental illness moniker.
While the distinction may be technically correct, where does one’s ‘personality’ reside if not in our mental ‘sphere’!?
Indeed. I see Trump as having Machiavellianism, secondary psychopathy, narcissism and sadism. This is known as the Dark Tetrad. This is much more dangerous than a person with schizophrenia.
Trump probably needs to be put in an institution for the criminally insane, to protect society from his wrath. Our prison population has a very high % of sociopaths within it.... and for good reason. Those with no conscience commit crimes.
It feels like a slow moving car crash... It feels like a frog being boiled in water... There's plenty of metaphors to explain the rise of fascism in the United States and beyond.
What first drew me to Ruth several years ago (before she published Strongmen) was her ability to explain history in such a way that it came alive. This piece is a great example of her talents.
I sensed that antisemitism,neo nazism and fascism would come back to the United States. I've been following it for over 40 years... But I could never imagine that a hardcore Holocaust denier would be having dinner with the former president of the United States.
Sadly, I feel the only thing left to say is that the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
The economic experiment that was esablished during the Reagan adminstration, led to the deindustrialization of America and created a pathway for fascism to flourish. Once the middle class had their jobs outsourced, they became angry and looked for a hero outside of the established political sphere to save them. Trump was their man who promised great things, while selling them on fascism. The sad part is, that they don't even realize that it was fascism that they bought.
And trump has delivered NOTHING to the members of his cult that enriches their lives! NOTHING!
So true. He just continued the wrath that neoliberal economics had brought.
Marycat, I'm trying to explain to you that there has never been free speech. Shouting fire in a crowded theater is speech, which is prohibited. Slander is prohibited and many other forms of speech. While you're correct that we can't use the standard of, "I don't like this," speech has current limits, past limits, and with absolute certainty, future limits. Many countries have put limits on 'hate speech.' Some 'odious/ugly' speech falls into this category, other 'odious/ugly' speech does not. No country has ever allowed complete free speech. I am open to learning from other countries' approaches. This is not abrogation the First Amendment, any more than slander or incitement, both of which are unprotected speech. Please read the cited article in full for one country's approach.
Hot thread, thanks gang.
Divisive times for the denizens of America and the world, with Musk allowing a platform of fear and hatred! Hopefully your excellent contributions in the media, open the eyes of the unctuous derps longing for either authoritarian or fascist control of our country!
Ruth: This was a very necessary piece. The only reason House Judiciary GOP took down their tweet is: the quiet part was said out loud. The tweet stayed up through ‘DEFCON 3 on the Jews’ and prior. They still agree; they just don’t want it to be obvious. Thank you as always for making us think!
Time to think about Poppins’ paradox of tolerance and considering when we should shut down certain types of speech
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Karl Popper
If we tolerate fascist speech, due to our freedom of speech mandate, we will find out just how intolerant fascists can be when they get into power. We wouldn't like their one party system. They wouldn't tolerate the democracy that we would want.
The First Amendment of the constitution protects the “freedom of speech” and the “freedom of the press,” but when a false claim causes harm to someone or a group, “defamation laws” and these constitutional protections are at odds with each other. Defamation laws protect people who may be damaged by false claims. Also, when a false claim is written down it is often called “libel.” Defamation has been used to limit both “freedom of speech” and “freedom of the press.”
I remember reading somewhere that there are no “false opinions/ideas,” however, there are indeed “false facts,” but these are NOT protected under the First Amendment. The late U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) is famous for saying, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” In addition, it was Kellyanne Conway a Republican and Trump campaign manager who brought to current Republican dialogue the false idea of something called “alternative facts” which were nothing more than her version of "false facts" that again are NOT protected under the First Amendment!
Recently, former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich is pushing the important ideas/strategies of using more of our “defamation law” to combat and use as a essential weapon against right-wing media LIES and MISINFORMATION such as was used in the Alex Jones Case where he had to pay millions in a defamation law violation to the parents of the Sandy Hook victims. Also, Fox News may have to pay more than a billion for false claims about the 2020 election as well as pay Dominion Election Systems over the same false 2020 election claims. Sarah Palin filed a “defamation claim” against the New York Times recently but lost with that one – perhaps it’s a Republican thing….LOL.
Anyway, democrats/progressives may want to consider using “defamation law” and “suing” that has been around since these constitutional protections have been put in place, as a method to lessen the “falsehoods” coming from Republican extremist media and other misinformation sources!
Now back to my grading!!!