Frankly, if I were Donnie, I would have a food taster on the payroll when Shady JD comes to dine....The Silicon bros are not going to wait too long to implement the agenda they bought and paid for.
Thank you, Ruth, for all that you do. Other good resources for community support include historian Joanne Freeman's Friday morning conversation, found here (join via Zoom or Facebook): https://ncheteach.org/conversations/
Lucid and Joanne's hour make Friday mornings a real boost, despite what's going on!
To be clear, I see the frame differently. White women make up 30% of the US population. Black women make up 6% of the US population. Black and Latino's make up 12 and 18% of the population overall. Black women voted for Harris overwhelmingly. To lump women together which is almost every analysis I've seen, glosses over the consistency of campaigns catering to white women who then have consistently voted for Trump. The abuse that black women took and have been taking for decades is deplorable. If white progressive women are to be allies/accomplices, we have to deep dive into our role in electing people like Trump.
I think this is a central theme of the forensic analysis that Sherillyn Ifill talked about. Kamala Harris was called the most vile names short of directly being called the "N" word. I'm certain she had death threats like no other, but we didn't hear about them. She's the VP of the US of America. Memes about her were - I'm not sure there's a word in the English language strong enough to describe how offensive they were directed at her. In spite of the treatment of VP Harris and black women in general, they turned out. Ruby Freeman and her daughter are still running for their lives. Why should they turn out? That goes for black men as well. The media ran with the fact that black men were going for Trump! Every group had people who went for Trump. I don't understand it, but that will always be the case. But, black women and men showed up, canvassed, phone banked and voted.
One last thing...when school shootings happen, Democrats rightfully go crazy when the Republicans do the "thoughts and prayers stuff" to distract from talking about guns. It's cynical, disingenous and immoral. I think there are many things post this election, but we have to be real about this issue and it's role time and again in our elections.
I hope it is ok that, as a male, I am jumping into this. I think voters can vote per many demographics-- party/ideology, age/generation, gender, race, class, education, urban/suburban/rural, or a mixture, and this can either strengthen or dilute the power of these groups. As a male, I could have made it a one-issue vote on reproductive health alone, and I know many men who feel the same and voted accordingly. I spent my career working with children and families, and in the last few years before I retired in March 2024, I saw the systemic, barbaric bias that led to elevated rates of maternal and infant mortality for women in general but more significantly for women of color. As a white male, I learned to listen and to be appreciative if others would teach me and share their experiences with me. It took a long time to even begin to appreciate how white male class privilege had blinded me, impaired me. It still does, and I am still digging out of it! But I am resonating with what folks here are expressing and I hope I am on-track with my remarks. Please straighten me out if I am not!
I struggle to see how any woman, of any age or demographic, could not vote in solidarity against MAGA candidates, though obviously it happened. I imagine there was solidarity among men and women to some degree (witness the three pro-reproductive rights measures that passed in Red states, and one that nearly did--that's a bonkers split ticket!) that cut across other demographics -- yet less than one would hope, it seems. MAGA still won in those states. It is bewildering, and I think it points to serious issues of patriarchy, misogyny, and racism that are operating in an insidious, non-rational way. There is a clash of values and interests, and people voting for yet against their own interests. I am thinking of the old 1963 Bob Dylan song, "Only a Pawn in Their Game" which powerfully confronts these problems in a way that still seems relevant. These MAGA people, these men and women of various other demographics, are made into hate machines by all that infuses them. I recommend it to everyone. And thinking of the scene in the 80s movie "Betrayed" (Deborah Winger) where the sweet little white 5 year-old girl makes her nightly prayer. Devastating.
A lot of big words to say -- it is just awful. Crushing. Sorrowful. Grievous.
The larger demographic shifts seemed to be in how males voted, and in the Hispanic votes? I saw figures that Harris got 2% more of the white vote than Biden, 1% less of black vote, and closer to 15% less of Hispanic voters. None of these groups are homogenous, or those splits have maybe not yet been analyzed, or I didn't see the results. How could Hispanics vote for Trump? That is similarly baffling, as he has from the start demonized and debased Hispanics as one group of people. Somehow, they must have found wedges to divide themselves? IDK, I am not Hispanic, but it puzzles me. The mood of the electorate seems to have been to punish Democrats for perceived failings (economy, etc.), to voice disapproval of "woke/DEI" policies, and to think they were going to get a real tough, strong, rich, white, guy to handle the border and everything else that was wrong, and return things to "how great they were 2017-2021" which has got to be the greatest feat of gaslighting in history. They were OK, or OK-adjacent, on things like Trump's corruption, insurrection, mental and cognitive unfitness, bigotry, sexism, rapist tendencies, criminal convictions, incompetence, Impeachments, national security compromises, dictator bro buddies, and clear GA voting fraud (and I know I missed some) to not let any or all of that stop them from voting for him or his MAGA sycophants. They wanted a clean sweep, that was the mood. And it seems it was numerically bigger than our mood. We managed to hold all the negatives and warning signs in mind, and to bring forth a manifestly far more capable, inspiring, and morally-centered candidate who happened to be a woman and of mixed race, and who was not even a childless cat-lady :) It was somehow not enough, or it was nonetheless unconvincing, distasteful or revulsive enough to not gain a majority of support. The mood was for crazy, corrupt, belligerent, and hateful. We like these characters in a show like the Sopranos, but not in elected office, and not when we know up front this is what we are voting for. I don't get it. But then, that is why I am here.
But it does NOT make them right nor does it make us wrong. It's a matter of history, and failures that arise in history/historical context, that either propel things like this forward or fail to prevent them. It is important how it can be chopped up, and that can be agonizing; but it seems it is a large, befouled wave of history that swept over us, propelled by disinformation, dark money, dark tendencies (bigotry, sexism, fear, brutality, cruelty, demonizing various out-groups), and a massive level of hypnosis or denial. It was all that and more, perhaps even by history itself: this is not all that outside of the American "character" that led to slavery, slaughter of indigenous populations, child labor, Jim Crow, prejudice against Irish/Germans/Italians (you know, those "legacy Americans"), against Jews (not "legacy Americans") who could be turned away when trying to escape the Nazis, Japanese Internment and incineration, and many other adventures in national cruelty and "exceptionalism". Not a good history, but now destined to be erased as history by MAGA editors.
I guess I am trying to think of the context that Dr. Ben-Ghiat emphasizes, that these are movements and moments that happen in history, and they are remarkably similar in many respects -- predictable, even, once they take hold. I've spent a lot of time following Dr. Bandy Lee and other mental health people who have diagnosed Trump and the "Trump contagion" for years. That is my background and training so I was nested over there. It was obvious that Trump is compromised, he's a sociopath, and there is a mass sociological effect to it all, yet that didn't seem to be persuasive for the nation. In fact, it seemed to work paradoxically on his followers, and they were enamored of his boasting, his "masculinity", his "success", his "outlaw/rebel" stance, and his complaints, etc. Manic grandiosity, for many, seems to promise something that will cure what ails them, or will purge what ails them. A British psychiatrist, Donald Meltzer had a saying, "Mania is like when a dog gets out of a pool -- they shake themselves off and everyone nearby gets wet". Tens of millions of people saw the dog in the pool and getting out of the pool --and yet did not turn or move away. They chose to get wet and even to jump in the pool. (My apologies to dogs).
I much prefer the grounded & compassionate promises and uplifting mood of what Ms. Harris brought to the nation, and I know we could all extol those qualities. But, as she said, those principles live on, and I see them here in this forum.
I guess we are all searching for a way to understand it and cope with it. I apologize for my rambling and perhaps ignorant or non-cogent way of expressing all this, but I was moved by the evocative, spirited, and wise discussion I am reading in this forum. I wish I had joined sooner :) With gratitude for your patience....
These are good points. One thing I noted, though, is that the pro-reproductive rights measures in three states were passed by voters even though the presidential race in those states went Red -- in two of the cases I think it was beyond 60% endorsing the measure. Even in FL, where it lost, it got 57% of the vote, just shy of the 60% requirement imposed on it. (The other states were only 50% +1). So it's a curious split-ticket effect, i.e., to vote FOR the individual (and MAGA regime) that was responsible for having reproductive health rights compromised in the first place. I would say that is ultimately voting against one's vote for a State measure that can soon be erased by a Federal ban, that is, if one votes for the MAGA candidates in the White House and Congressional races.
It's possible that a substantial number of voters for abortion rights didn't vote for either candidate for president. It's also possible that some Trump voters also voted for abortion rights.
And don't forget that there are a lot of men in the hinterlands who think their wives should vote for whomever the husbands want (Trump in this case), and that some of those wives probably feel obliged to go along with the husbands.
All good points. David. I have often said it is the non-voters who have the loudest, most weighted voice. It happened to Hillary in MI for example, and to Trump in GA. Trump had 28,000 + in GA who voted all R down ballot but left President blank. A couple of my friends are saying the election was rigged because the Dem registrations shot up, there was so much enthusiasm, Trump had dwindling crowds, ex-staff turning against him, Madison Square Garden, Arnold Palmers putter... So where did all the votes go? They think something was rigged. Maybe the voters just didn't go or didn't drop it in the mail. (Maybe Louis Dejoi rigged something again?). My trainer, a female, said for many of her female clients, the husband fills out their ballot and marks it all R. They are not even being obliging, their vote is just highjacked. What I was saying, too, is that many voters for Trump also voted across that by voting for the pro-reproductive rights bill. That would seem to indicate a strong preference about that measure despite a strong preference about MAGA values -- which put that "Pro-Life"/Dobbs agenda in place. Many forces at play, agreed!
In part, as I read thoughtful comments, the question is, not about how does any woman or Latino vote for Trump? How does any human being who has empathy or love or life experience vote for hate? Division? Destruction? Cruelty?
I was in the evangelical world for many years and many of these white women are evies—and growing cohort of Latino evangelicals which is very concerning. You can learn more from Substack of Robert P Jones PRRI. Lot of it not surprise as mega churches are huge and many pastors openly tell them how to vote and deep radio presence. Dems are clueless at how this has been building for decades.
Years ago I read of a practice used by a religious sister called "custody of the eyes." The thing I remember was casting down your eyes -- looking away -- when confronted by something that was detrimental to your spiritual health. I do that with DT, whose mugging, scowls, and rages upset me mightily. I look away. Same with his voice -- in whatever way I can, I silence it. I will stay informed on my terms, without giving him space in my head. Thank you, Ruth, for continuing to remind us to take care and stay strong.
Some great memes out there about that mouth and its similarities to other bodily structures...
I agree with you both. I used to watch MSNBC a lot but got nauseated and got headaches from the sheer amount of visual screen time they give to Trump's ghastly visage, hour after hour, day after day. I can't imagine it is any less than on Faux! It is one thing to talk about him 45 minutes of every hour but do we have to look at his ugly puss, too? It really made me wonder sometimes if they realized the hypnotic effect that this brain-flooding has. Probably, because it triggers such an emotional response (e.g., anger, disgust, depression, grief, hopelessness, fight/flight/numbing) that it creates a kind of trauma-bond that keeps us watching. Months ago, I switched over to the podcast version specifically for this reason, and that was one way to just hear the information, such as it is.
Trauma-bond -- that's interesting. I'll have to look that up. Psychiatrist Dr. Bandy X. Lee includes an essay in her book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump called "In Relationship with an Abusive President/" Author is Harper West, M.A., L.L.P. Dr. Lee also says the cult-like Trump phenomenon is a "shared" or "collective" psychosis brought about by an extremely mentally impaired leader. Your use of the word "disgust" is interesting, too. I wonder if he triggers infantile bodily memories and needs in people that they think he will satisfy?. The way he holds his fists seems to me like an infant's. Whatever -- your solution of switching to podcasts sounds like a good one!
Thanjs for responding Barbara. I'll respond more to substance tomorrow, but the podcast switch has helped. Reminds me of how much i used to love listening to radio programming as a kid (rock music) and young adult (especially Alan Watts and Krishnamurti on Pacifica Radio). You do lose some visuals that you would like to see, but mostly it's just talk. They cut the commercials but do have ads through which you can FFwd, and these are not as abrupt or annoying as YouTube. Many other YT shows come as podcasts and I listen instead. I just watch YT to see how they look, then "pod it" on my Ipad mostly. Podcasts have so much variety, too. I found some about music and movies that are just wonderful. Guess I'm officially a Podhead! Sorry if that's TMI. Best benefit is not having to look at that grotesque mug! It's like the Picture of Dorian Trump 🤣
Great advice. It’s imperative for us to be as healthy as possible - physically, mentally & spiritually (which is whatever that means to you - deity or no deity). Stress depletes us, especially when it is constant. We’ve been on heightened alert since 2015 and 2025 forward is going to take a higher toll than anything that came before.
I’m not advocating for no comfort food - however that looks for each of us - because we need that too. I certainly have since Tuesday. (It’s time to go back to my regularly scheduled program on that though so it doesn’t become a negative instead of an occasional positive.)
We will definitely need our various communities - friends, friend groups, where we live if possible, the community & country we hope to create after trump et al, and our online communities. Thank you Ruth for creating and sustaining this community. Lucid is important beyond measure. As are you.
Ruth- I can only imagine that with your enormous efforts to warn all of us how this must feel. I also have learned since I started following you and LUCID from the beginning that you are inspire resilience. I have never had to wake up everyday feeling nauseous or like I have a hangover. (I rarely drink. It's not that.) I also know that my interracial marriage/husband and daughter have taught me that they don't have the luxury of curling up in a ball for days. They also inspire me. The black and brown Coordinated Campaign people who made North Carolina an exception this election by ridding us of an avowed sexual predator who referred to himself as a "black Nazi" and a woman who wanted to run the education system in the ground in NC, are my heroes. Black woman and men are my heroes. I read something about a British person who joked that "Americans memories are short" implying that the idea of electing Trump was confounding. What has become clear to me and likely any woman or man whose ever been on the receiving end of a sexual predator-the voice, the tone, the mysoginistic words, the body language, the dismissiveness- is something we will have to endure for 4 years with Trump AND with Vance, Steven Miller, Musk and, my God, RFK Jr. The lineup of bad actors couldn't be more grotesque if it were a circus. Trump is all projection. He told us he was Hannibal Lecter. We are Clarisse. I will severely limit my media for the next 4 years. Right now, all I can stomach is Lawrence O'Donnell. I'm waiting to see how severely our print and digital media acquiesces to even greater sane washing. For now, I will only follow ProPublica who came out with a statement vowing to stick to journalistic ethics and principles. I will be there this afternoon. See everyone then.
They need to have a "much respect" button! Thank you. I gave up on MSNBC after they succumbed to "red tsunami" fever in 2022, but slowly went back, mostly on podcast so I didn't have to see the mug of Trumpenstein for hours. Lawrence is mostly good, Joy Reid, too. All have their moments. I guess Deadline Whitehouse has been my staple, and I saw Nicolle Wallace as relentlessly, heroically taking on the ugliness. But I moved to many other Never-Trumpers who also had MAGA in their sights. I have boycotted CNN since the Trump Town Hall, which was an egregious act of validation for MAGA that I could not abide. You said it all so well.... We have to be Clarisse, yes; the alternative is to be the prison psychologist who walks into the trap. One of my favorite fables of the Trump problem is Twilight Zone Season 3, Episode 8, "It's a Good Life" with Billy Mumy. All it takes is to suffer the monster and he will be a monster and you will suffer. We don't deserve to suffer. Some of my friends (like a recent NYT opinion) say, "This is who we are...These are our brothers and sisters". While not wanting to see these citizens as the enemy, I do not feel any kinship with them on the politics. They are anything but relatives to me. They demonize me 25 ways to Sunday, and if they lost, the battle would be on, they'd be coming for our side. Yeah, the parade of sadists, clowns and incompetents in this administration will be epically bad. John Nichols had a book out in 2017 called "Horsemen of the Trumpocalypse" that was 500+ pages; he could double that this time. Still worth reading. Also Amy Siskind's "The List" and subsequent podcast "The Weekly List" chronicled the granular erosion of law, custom, tradition, guardrails, and decency that went on. The horror, the horror. She thought it was over when Biden won, that "normalcy" would be restored. Not quite... I was numb for day, despairing for a day, but now am ready to stand up, play guitar, exercise, go outside more, go to museums, see friends... I retired in March but my period of laying fallow is over.
How do you know when it's time to leave? I look to Nazi Germany as an example. Do you think the US will get as bad or will it be more like Hungary and Turkey?
Many people and institutions are. Will dissent be allowed after 1/20/25? We shall see. Will he be a dictator just "on day one" or "from day one"? Will there be "one day of extreme violence" that will terrify people into silence or compliance? Ask Dr. Ben-Ghiat would be my tendency.
I urged some friends who had young kids, or who had options for dual citizenship (Canada, Philippines) to at least look into it and be ready. I think more like Hungary, Italy, and Turkey? But Russian, North Korea, Nazi style, or parts thereof, seem possible. He didn't keep Erdogan's autobiography by his bedside... The sooner they are bounced out of office, while that can still be done, the better -- beginning in 2026!! Otherwise this could go on for a while....
As Woody Allen (wince, flinch) once said "We need the eggs".
I love how among "conservatives" Woody Allen is now a victim of a shrewish, vengeful woman; Oswald definitely acted alone; fossil fuels do not create pollution; climate change is a hoax, etc.etc.
I appreciate the words of wisdom; although each of our paths to deal with what's on our plates may be different - the ultimate goal is friendship, community, solidarity. I am deeply worried at this moment. But I am also deeply grateful for you and this community. Whatever continues to emerge in terms of resistance and change will find a way through us as well.
Thank you Ruth and the Lucid community. Since Tuesday night you became even more important to me.
Like so many of you, have spent much of the last several years immersed in different anti-authoritarian activities (especially my documentary, “The Broken Promise”).
Since Tuesday, when I’m not in the post-traumatic “take care of myself” mode (hiking, being with friends, watching movies reading fiction), I am focused on trying to understand the “why” and “how could over half the country knowingly vote for this indecent criminal.”
Other times my mind goes to different exercises.
This morning I thought about what this election taught us about “Rules We Should Teach to Our Children.” I’d like to share them.
-Get rich and powerful any way you can.
-It’s okay for you and those that serve you to break the law, just don’t get caught.
-Laws apply only to your enemies.
-Justice matters only when it applies to you.
-Never admit you’re wrong.
-Truth and science only matter when it serves you.
-Serve yourself, not others.
-Serve others only when you yourself benefit.
-Don’t worry about tormenting and causing great harm to others when it benefits you.
I’ve enjoyed seeing you on various MSNBC shows & started following you here. You are so wise & thoughtful. Today I became a paid subscriber in order to view your video posts. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you Dr. Ben-Ghiat, for your assessment here. I’m not alone, I’m sure, in wishing the will of the people would have willed a different outcome. Knowing who trump is, and what he is, and who and what MAGA is, I’m more than concerned about our future 4 years or more. We should have been done with him by now, instead we are faced with a much changed America. In spite of the facts, and criminal conduct since the insurrection, trump is not only still with us, he seems to have won over the popular vote this time as well, This is astonishing, since turnout for Harris was so disappointing.
We have to find a new way forward in order to resist the onslaught of Christian Nationalism.
The lack of turnout was astonishing -- and disappointing. Baffling.
He was injected with life and revivified many times, and it has been since the very first day in 2015. There were many accomplices: Putin, Fox, Barr, McConnell, Meadows, McCarthy, the SCOMAGA, NYT/WAPO, Megan Kelly, Musk... Among these, for me Barr and McConnell will be at the lowest levels of a Dante-esque pit of eternal torture. Dante did not put the worst offenders -- those who had been traitors to country and to God -- in a fiery pit. They were assigned to a vast region of ice -- symbolizing the coldness and inability to be loyal and to love that tainted their character. Interesting reading for these times.
Let's call it the Vance-Trump administration. Then they'll be stuck dealing with temper tantrums. 🤣
Frankly, if I were Donnie, I would have a food taster on the payroll when Shady JD comes to dine....The Silicon bros are not going to wait too long to implement the agenda they bought and paid for.
Bring back the Royal Bed Bouncer!!!
Thank you, Ruth, for all that you do. Other good resources for community support include historian Joanne Freeman's Friday morning conversation, found here (join via Zoom or Facebook): https://ncheteach.org/conversations/
Lucid and Joanne's hour make Friday mornings a real boost, despite what's going on!
What happened to all the women— who were supposedly going to save the day?!
White women....black women voted and were the front line of activism as they always have been and then lumped in and demonized on the other side.
But supposedly all women were going to be energized because of Dobbs, etc? It didn’t happen.
To be clear, I see the frame differently. White women make up 30% of the US population. Black women make up 6% of the US population. Black and Latino's make up 12 and 18% of the population overall. Black women voted for Harris overwhelmingly. To lump women together which is almost every analysis I've seen, glosses over the consistency of campaigns catering to white women who then have consistently voted for Trump. The abuse that black women took and have been taking for decades is deplorable. If white progressive women are to be allies/accomplices, we have to deep dive into our role in electing people like Trump.
That is my point. I know Black women would have her back but it was supposed to be a massive wave of all women.
I think this is a central theme of the forensic analysis that Sherillyn Ifill talked about. Kamala Harris was called the most vile names short of directly being called the "N" word. I'm certain she had death threats like no other, but we didn't hear about them. She's the VP of the US of America. Memes about her were - I'm not sure there's a word in the English language strong enough to describe how offensive they were directed at her. In spite of the treatment of VP Harris and black women in general, they turned out. Ruby Freeman and her daughter are still running for their lives. Why should they turn out? That goes for black men as well. The media ran with the fact that black men were going for Trump! Every group had people who went for Trump. I don't understand it, but that will always be the case. But, black women and men showed up, canvassed, phone banked and voted.
One last thing...when school shootings happen, Democrats rightfully go crazy when the Republicans do the "thoughts and prayers stuff" to distract from talking about guns. It's cynical, disingenous and immoral. I think there are many things post this election, but we have to be real about this issue and it's role time and again in our elections.
I hope it is ok that, as a male, I am jumping into this. I think voters can vote per many demographics-- party/ideology, age/generation, gender, race, class, education, urban/suburban/rural, or a mixture, and this can either strengthen or dilute the power of these groups. As a male, I could have made it a one-issue vote on reproductive health alone, and I know many men who feel the same and voted accordingly. I spent my career working with children and families, and in the last few years before I retired in March 2024, I saw the systemic, barbaric bias that led to elevated rates of maternal and infant mortality for women in general but more significantly for women of color. As a white male, I learned to listen and to be appreciative if others would teach me and share their experiences with me. It took a long time to even begin to appreciate how white male class privilege had blinded me, impaired me. It still does, and I am still digging out of it! But I am resonating with what folks here are expressing and I hope I am on-track with my remarks. Please straighten me out if I am not!
I struggle to see how any woman, of any age or demographic, could not vote in solidarity against MAGA candidates, though obviously it happened. I imagine there was solidarity among men and women to some degree (witness the three pro-reproductive rights measures that passed in Red states, and one that nearly did--that's a bonkers split ticket!) that cut across other demographics -- yet less than one would hope, it seems. MAGA still won in those states. It is bewildering, and I think it points to serious issues of patriarchy, misogyny, and racism that are operating in an insidious, non-rational way. There is a clash of values and interests, and people voting for yet against their own interests. I am thinking of the old 1963 Bob Dylan song, "Only a Pawn in Their Game" which powerfully confronts these problems in a way that still seems relevant. These MAGA people, these men and women of various other demographics, are made into hate machines by all that infuses them. I recommend it to everyone. And thinking of the scene in the 80s movie "Betrayed" (Deborah Winger) where the sweet little white 5 year-old girl makes her nightly prayer. Devastating.
A lot of big words to say -- it is just awful. Crushing. Sorrowful. Grievous.
The larger demographic shifts seemed to be in how males voted, and in the Hispanic votes? I saw figures that Harris got 2% more of the white vote than Biden, 1% less of black vote, and closer to 15% less of Hispanic voters. None of these groups are homogenous, or those splits have maybe not yet been analyzed, or I didn't see the results. How could Hispanics vote for Trump? That is similarly baffling, as he has from the start demonized and debased Hispanics as one group of people. Somehow, they must have found wedges to divide themselves? IDK, I am not Hispanic, but it puzzles me. The mood of the electorate seems to have been to punish Democrats for perceived failings (economy, etc.), to voice disapproval of "woke/DEI" policies, and to think they were going to get a real tough, strong, rich, white, guy to handle the border and everything else that was wrong, and return things to "how great they were 2017-2021" which has got to be the greatest feat of gaslighting in history. They were OK, or OK-adjacent, on things like Trump's corruption, insurrection, mental and cognitive unfitness, bigotry, sexism, rapist tendencies, criminal convictions, incompetence, Impeachments, national security compromises, dictator bro buddies, and clear GA voting fraud (and I know I missed some) to not let any or all of that stop them from voting for him or his MAGA sycophants. They wanted a clean sweep, that was the mood. And it seems it was numerically bigger than our mood. We managed to hold all the negatives and warning signs in mind, and to bring forth a manifestly far more capable, inspiring, and morally-centered candidate who happened to be a woman and of mixed race, and who was not even a childless cat-lady :) It was somehow not enough, or it was nonetheless unconvincing, distasteful or revulsive enough to not gain a majority of support. The mood was for crazy, corrupt, belligerent, and hateful. We like these characters in a show like the Sopranos, but not in elected office, and not when we know up front this is what we are voting for. I don't get it. But then, that is why I am here.
But it does NOT make them right nor does it make us wrong. It's a matter of history, and failures that arise in history/historical context, that either propel things like this forward or fail to prevent them. It is important how it can be chopped up, and that can be agonizing; but it seems it is a large, befouled wave of history that swept over us, propelled by disinformation, dark money, dark tendencies (bigotry, sexism, fear, brutality, cruelty, demonizing various out-groups), and a massive level of hypnosis or denial. It was all that and more, perhaps even by history itself: this is not all that outside of the American "character" that led to slavery, slaughter of indigenous populations, child labor, Jim Crow, prejudice against Irish/Germans/Italians (you know, those "legacy Americans"), against Jews (not "legacy Americans") who could be turned away when trying to escape the Nazis, Japanese Internment and incineration, and many other adventures in national cruelty and "exceptionalism". Not a good history, but now destined to be erased as history by MAGA editors.
I guess I am trying to think of the context that Dr. Ben-Ghiat emphasizes, that these are movements and moments that happen in history, and they are remarkably similar in many respects -- predictable, even, once they take hold. I've spent a lot of time following Dr. Bandy Lee and other mental health people who have diagnosed Trump and the "Trump contagion" for years. That is my background and training so I was nested over there. It was obvious that Trump is compromised, he's a sociopath, and there is a mass sociological effect to it all, yet that didn't seem to be persuasive for the nation. In fact, it seemed to work paradoxically on his followers, and they were enamored of his boasting, his "masculinity", his "success", his "outlaw/rebel" stance, and his complaints, etc. Manic grandiosity, for many, seems to promise something that will cure what ails them, or will purge what ails them. A British psychiatrist, Donald Meltzer had a saying, "Mania is like when a dog gets out of a pool -- they shake themselves off and everyone nearby gets wet". Tens of millions of people saw the dog in the pool and getting out of the pool --and yet did not turn or move away. They chose to get wet and even to jump in the pool. (My apologies to dogs).
I much prefer the grounded & compassionate promises and uplifting mood of what Ms. Harris brought to the nation, and I know we could all extol those qualities. But, as she said, those principles live on, and I see them here in this forum.
I guess we are all searching for a way to understand it and cope with it. I apologize for my rambling and perhaps ignorant or non-cogent way of expressing all this, but I was moved by the evocative, spirited, and wise discussion I am reading in this forum. I wish I had joined sooner :) With gratitude for your patience....
These are good points. One thing I noted, though, is that the pro-reproductive rights measures in three states were passed by voters even though the presidential race in those states went Red -- in two of the cases I think it was beyond 60% endorsing the measure. Even in FL, where it lost, it got 57% of the vote, just shy of the 60% requirement imposed on it. (The other states were only 50% +1). So it's a curious split-ticket effect, i.e., to vote FOR the individual (and MAGA regime) that was responsible for having reproductive health rights compromised in the first place. I would say that is ultimately voting against one's vote for a State measure that can soon be erased by a Federal ban, that is, if one votes for the MAGA candidates in the White House and Congressional races.
Curiouser and curiouser...
It's possible that a substantial number of voters for abortion rights didn't vote for either candidate for president. It's also possible that some Trump voters also voted for abortion rights.
And don't forget that there are a lot of men in the hinterlands who think their wives should vote for whomever the husbands want (Trump in this case), and that some of those wives probably feel obliged to go along with the husbands.
All good points. David. I have often said it is the non-voters who have the loudest, most weighted voice. It happened to Hillary in MI for example, and to Trump in GA. Trump had 28,000 + in GA who voted all R down ballot but left President blank. A couple of my friends are saying the election was rigged because the Dem registrations shot up, there was so much enthusiasm, Trump had dwindling crowds, ex-staff turning against him, Madison Square Garden, Arnold Palmers putter... So where did all the votes go? They think something was rigged. Maybe the voters just didn't go or didn't drop it in the mail. (Maybe Louis Dejoi rigged something again?). My trainer, a female, said for many of her female clients, the husband fills out their ballot and marks it all R. They are not even being obliging, their vote is just highjacked. What I was saying, too, is that many voters for Trump also voted across that by voting for the pro-reproductive rights bill. That would seem to indicate a strong preference about that measure despite a strong preference about MAGA values -- which put that "Pro-Life"/Dobbs agenda in place. Many forces at play, agreed!
In part, as I read thoughtful comments, the question is, not about how does any woman or Latino vote for Trump? How does any human being who has empathy or love or life experience vote for hate? Division? Destruction? Cruelty?
I was in the evangelical world for many years and many of these white women are evies—and growing cohort of Latino evangelicals which is very concerning. You can learn more from Substack of Robert P Jones PRRI. Lot of it not surprise as mega churches are huge and many pastors openly tell them how to vote and deep radio presence. Dems are clueless at how this has been building for decades.
PS they think we are “evil liberals.” They don’t see hypocrisy or any contradiction.
I never thought for an instant that white women would vote for Harris.
I thought MORE might because of Dobbs—not all. And some amendments were passed or defeated.
Years ago I read of a practice used by a religious sister called "custody of the eyes." The thing I remember was casting down your eyes -- looking away -- when confronted by something that was detrimental to your spiritual health. I do that with DT, whose mugging, scowls, and rages upset me mightily. I look away. Same with his voice -- in whatever way I can, I silence it. I will stay informed on my terms, without giving him space in my head. Thank you, Ruth, for continuing to remind us to take care and stay strong.
Me too. The sight of him is like a spiritual assault. Especially is puckered up mouth.
Some great memes out there about that mouth and its similarities to other bodily structures...
I agree with you both. I used to watch MSNBC a lot but got nauseated and got headaches from the sheer amount of visual screen time they give to Trump's ghastly visage, hour after hour, day after day. I can't imagine it is any less than on Faux! It is one thing to talk about him 45 minutes of every hour but do we have to look at his ugly puss, too? It really made me wonder sometimes if they realized the hypnotic effect that this brain-flooding has. Probably, because it triggers such an emotional response (e.g., anger, disgust, depression, grief, hopelessness, fight/flight/numbing) that it creates a kind of trauma-bond that keeps us watching. Months ago, I switched over to the podcast version specifically for this reason, and that was one way to just hear the information, such as it is.
Trauma-bond -- that's interesting. I'll have to look that up. Psychiatrist Dr. Bandy X. Lee includes an essay in her book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump called "In Relationship with an Abusive President/" Author is Harper West, M.A., L.L.P. Dr. Lee also says the cult-like Trump phenomenon is a "shared" or "collective" psychosis brought about by an extremely mentally impaired leader. Your use of the word "disgust" is interesting, too. I wonder if he triggers infantile bodily memories and needs in people that they think he will satisfy?. The way he holds his fists seems to me like an infant's. Whatever -- your solution of switching to podcasts sounds like a good one!
Thanjs for responding Barbara. I'll respond more to substance tomorrow, but the podcast switch has helped. Reminds me of how much i used to love listening to radio programming as a kid (rock music) and young adult (especially Alan Watts and Krishnamurti on Pacifica Radio). You do lose some visuals that you would like to see, but mostly it's just talk. They cut the commercials but do have ads through which you can FFwd, and these are not as abrupt or annoying as YouTube. Many other YT shows come as podcasts and I listen instead. I just watch YT to see how they look, then "pod it" on my Ipad mostly. Podcasts have so much variety, too. I found some about music and movies that are just wonderful. Guess I'm officially a Podhead! Sorry if that's TMI. Best benefit is not having to look at that grotesque mug! It's like the Picture of Dorian Trump 🤣
"Spiritual assault" -- that's a an apt phrase. Thanks!
Great advice. It’s imperative for us to be as healthy as possible - physically, mentally & spiritually (which is whatever that means to you - deity or no deity). Stress depletes us, especially when it is constant. We’ve been on heightened alert since 2015 and 2025 forward is going to take a higher toll than anything that came before.
I’m not advocating for no comfort food - however that looks for each of us - because we need that too. I certainly have since Tuesday. (It’s time to go back to my regularly scheduled program on that though so it doesn’t become a negative instead of an occasional positive.)
We will definitely need our various communities - friends, friend groups, where we live if possible, the community & country we hope to create after trump et al, and our online communities. Thank you Ruth for creating and sustaining this community. Lucid is important beyond measure. As are you.
Ruth- I can only imagine that with your enormous efforts to warn all of us how this must feel. I also have learned since I started following you and LUCID from the beginning that you are inspire resilience. I have never had to wake up everyday feeling nauseous or like I have a hangover. (I rarely drink. It's not that.) I also know that my interracial marriage/husband and daughter have taught me that they don't have the luxury of curling up in a ball for days. They also inspire me. The black and brown Coordinated Campaign people who made North Carolina an exception this election by ridding us of an avowed sexual predator who referred to himself as a "black Nazi" and a woman who wanted to run the education system in the ground in NC, are my heroes. Black woman and men are my heroes. I read something about a British person who joked that "Americans memories are short" implying that the idea of electing Trump was confounding. What has become clear to me and likely any woman or man whose ever been on the receiving end of a sexual predator-the voice, the tone, the mysoginistic words, the body language, the dismissiveness- is something we will have to endure for 4 years with Trump AND with Vance, Steven Miller, Musk and, my God, RFK Jr. The lineup of bad actors couldn't be more grotesque if it were a circus. Trump is all projection. He told us he was Hannibal Lecter. We are Clarisse. I will severely limit my media for the next 4 years. Right now, all I can stomach is Lawrence O'Donnell. I'm waiting to see how severely our print and digital media acquiesces to even greater sane washing. For now, I will only follow ProPublica who came out with a statement vowing to stick to journalistic ethics and principles. I will be there this afternoon. See everyone then.
I too have reduced MSM-I still watch Lawrence O’Donnell-I’ve been watching podcasts and reading Substack-as I have cancelled both the NYT and WAPO!!
Together we will get through this 😘
Thank you Susan for these thoughts.
They need to have a "much respect" button! Thank you. I gave up on MSNBC after they succumbed to "red tsunami" fever in 2022, but slowly went back, mostly on podcast so I didn't have to see the mug of Trumpenstein for hours. Lawrence is mostly good, Joy Reid, too. All have their moments. I guess Deadline Whitehouse has been my staple, and I saw Nicolle Wallace as relentlessly, heroically taking on the ugliness. But I moved to many other Never-Trumpers who also had MAGA in their sights. I have boycotted CNN since the Trump Town Hall, which was an egregious act of validation for MAGA that I could not abide. You said it all so well.... We have to be Clarisse, yes; the alternative is to be the prison psychologist who walks into the trap. One of my favorite fables of the Trump problem is Twilight Zone Season 3, Episode 8, "It's a Good Life" with Billy Mumy. All it takes is to suffer the monster and he will be a monster and you will suffer. We don't deserve to suffer. Some of my friends (like a recent NYT opinion) say, "This is who we are...These are our brothers and sisters". While not wanting to see these citizens as the enemy, I do not feel any kinship with them on the politics. They are anything but relatives to me. They demonize me 25 ways to Sunday, and if they lost, the battle would be on, they'd be coming for our side. Yeah, the parade of sadists, clowns and incompetents in this administration will be epically bad. John Nichols had a book out in 2017 called "Horsemen of the Trumpocalypse" that was 500+ pages; he could double that this time. Still worth reading. Also Amy Siskind's "The List" and subsequent podcast "The Weekly List" chronicled the granular erosion of law, custom, tradition, guardrails, and decency that went on. The horror, the horror. She thought it was over when Biden won, that "normalcy" would be restored. Not quite... I was numb for day, despairing for a day, but now am ready to stand up, play guitar, exercise, go outside more, go to museums, see friends... I retired in March but my period of laying fallow is over.
How do you know when it's time to leave? I look to Nazi Germany as an example. Do you think the US will get as bad or will it be more like Hungary and Turkey?
I had these thoughts back in July-I was truly terrified-I took comfort in the Harris/Walz campaign and now am unsure 🫤 what to do!
I want to stay and fight-I listened to Eric Swallwell (sp?) and he is determined to carry on!!
He’s so tough. Governors already making plans on how to resist.
Many people and institutions are. Will dissent be allowed after 1/20/25? We shall see. Will he be a dictator just "on day one" or "from day one"? Will there be "one day of extreme violence" that will terrify people into silence or compliance? Ask Dr. Ben-Ghiat would be my tendency.
Did you hear Pritzker speak ?
It was heartening!!
I urged some friends who had young kids, or who had options for dual citizenship (Canada, Philippines) to at least look into it and be ready. I think more like Hungary, Italy, and Turkey? But Russian, North Korea, Nazi style, or parts thereof, seem possible. He didn't keep Erdogan's autobiography by his bedside... The sooner they are bounced out of office, while that can still be done, the better -- beginning in 2026!! Otherwise this could go on for a while....
I became a paid subscriber, but didn’t get a link to register.
I recently finished knitting an “emotional support chicken”. I’m thinking I should knit more of them to share 😁
As Woody Allen (wince, flinch) once said "We need the eggs".
I love how among "conservatives" Woody Allen is now a victim of a shrewish, vengeful woman; Oswald definitely acted alone; fossil fuels do not create pollution; climate change is a hoax, etc.etc.
Ruth, your efforts to educate us are greatly appreciated! Know that!
I appreciate the words of wisdom; although each of our paths to deal with what's on our plates may be different - the ultimate goal is friendship, community, solidarity. I am deeply worried at this moment. But I am also deeply grateful for you and this community. Whatever continues to emerge in terms of resistance and change will find a way through us as well.
I just upped my monthly contribution to the ACLU.
Thank you Ruth and the Lucid community. Since Tuesday night you became even more important to me.
Like so many of you, have spent much of the last several years immersed in different anti-authoritarian activities (especially my documentary, “The Broken Promise”).
Since Tuesday, when I’m not in the post-traumatic “take care of myself” mode (hiking, being with friends, watching movies reading fiction), I am focused on trying to understand the “why” and “how could over half the country knowingly vote for this indecent criminal.”
Other times my mind goes to different exercises.
This morning I thought about what this election taught us about “Rules We Should Teach to Our Children.” I’d like to share them.
-Get rich and powerful any way you can.
-It’s okay for you and those that serve you to break the law, just don’t get caught.
-Laws apply only to your enemies.
-Justice matters only when it applies to you.
-Never admit you’re wrong.
-Truth and science only matter when it serves you.
-Serve yourself, not others.
-Serve others only when you yourself benefit.
-Don’t worry about tormenting and causing great harm to others when it benefits you.
-Never lose no matter what.
Trump learned this very well from Roy Cohn. He created a monster.
He was himself a monster begetting another monster. Deep roots....all vile.
Great yet tragic list.
RE:It’s okay for you and those that serve you to break the law, just don’t get caught.
I would add the codicil: But if you do get caught, demand immunity from the Supreme Court or other friendly judges.
I’ve enjoyed seeing you on various MSNBC shows & started following you here. You are so wise & thoughtful. Today I became a paid subscriber in order to view your video posts. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you Dr. Ben-Ghiat, for your assessment here. I’m not alone, I’m sure, in wishing the will of the people would have willed a different outcome. Knowing who trump is, and what he is, and who and what MAGA is, I’m more than concerned about our future 4 years or more. We should have been done with him by now, instead we are faced with a much changed America. In spite of the facts, and criminal conduct since the insurrection, trump is not only still with us, he seems to have won over the popular vote this time as well, This is astonishing, since turnout for Harris was so disappointing.
We have to find a new way forward in order to resist the onslaught of Christian Nationalism.
The lack of turnout was astonishing -- and disappointing. Baffling.
He was injected with life and revivified many times, and it has been since the very first day in 2015. There were many accomplices: Putin, Fox, Barr, McConnell, Meadows, McCarthy, the SCOMAGA, NYT/WAPO, Megan Kelly, Musk... Among these, for me Barr and McConnell will be at the lowest levels of a Dante-esque pit of eternal torture. Dante did not put the worst offenders -- those who had been traitors to country and to God -- in a fiery pit. They were assigned to a vast region of ice -- symbolizing the coldness and inability to be loyal and to love that tainted their character. Interesting reading for these times.