Here is what I believe is one of the more significant passages from a host of insightful analyses as well as how to possibly right-course the dangers:
"It is possible, even with someone who is fearsome, to effectuate a kind of psychological jujitsu maneuver where you can find the way to exploit their weakness against them. Because those people have actually no defenses against that weakness, and they will do anything to try to move away from the wound or destroy it, or overpower it by becoming overpowering."
It's what the interviewer (and myself) describe as a form of Japanese jujitsu. It is imperative to turn the narrative on its head, a counter narrative if you will. Expose the tyrants, authoritarians, fascists or whatever category of identity you choose.
For me it's a no brainer: A dictator who may well turn the country into a full-Monty dictatorship come 5 November.
Thank you again for introducing us to such incredible people! This was a terrific interview, I just wish we could hear the entire thing. Agreed on the soothing qualities of Beethoven and Mozart...
Yes, always amazed by Ruth’s guests and conversations …. more love for Beethoven and Mozart… but sometimes heavy metal satisfactorily scratches an itch
There have always been con men, power abusers and fraudsters throughout history of one kind or another. In religion we have the preachers and televangelists, people like Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker etc. In politics we have of course Trump and his circle of corruption and greed. In business we had Bernie Madoff and now most recently Elisabeth Holmes. They put up reality distortion fields and they fascinate because of what they're able to get away with.
Power begets power especially as moneyed elites become more corrupt. The less fraud and abuses of power are punished the more of it we will have.
Look what happened at the end of the Civil war when confederate leaders and politicians were pardoned by Andrew Johnson and let back into the union without consequence for their treason and sedition. These people sought to destroy American democracy in order to implement their system of slave oligarchy and spread it westward. They believed white men are better and superior than black men. Fifty years ago Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for his impeachable crimes and abuses of power. G.H. Bush pardoned Iran Contra scandal figures like Casper Weinberg who participated in a coverup to protect Ronald Reagan. Oliver North got off with a slap on the wrist etc.
Straight out of Dante's Inferno, Donald Trump, swirling in the circles of hell below has yet to pay any legal, political or financial price for his numerous crimes, corruption and abuses of power, despite having been twice impeached and defeated for reelection. He's still getting away with it, copiously telling his big lie that the election was rigged and he appears very likely to run again for President in 2024 unless he's indicted, convicted or beset by health issues. He wants vengeance and retribution if returned to power and he's corrupting the voting systems in Republican dominated states with radical loyalists who will do his bidding to insure he doesn't lose again.
Well said. Future cannot be better unless the perpetrators of the past pay their dues by being held accountable. Let me give you more recent examples: Nixon, Reagan, GHB, GWB - all those guys (& Clinton) never faced the proper penalties for their actions. Wonder where we would be today if Nixon had been prosecuted and punished? Iran-Contra might never happened or the crazy stuff in Iraq...
Nah, the Clintons just have their opposition , Epstein, murdered in jail. (he was going to squeal about the Lolitta Express) Charming folk.. the democrats.
It has been estimated that at least 20% of our prison population is comprised of sociopaths (APD). Sociopathy turns out to be fairly common, as far as personality disorders go. They lack the important virtue of empathy which goes hand in hand with their lack of remorse for having caused pain in others. They are sadistic and guileful. Many horrible leaders have been sociopaths, especially fascist ones. Here are some known sociopaths, both leaders and non-leaders-- Allen Dulles, Henry Kissinger, John Gacy, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, Josef Mengele, Ayn Rand, Pinochet, Mussolini, Hitler and yes Trump. As we have seen, it only takes one sociopath in a key position to ruin an entire nation. They are destructive charismatic leaders but their grandiosity is so appealing to the masses, unfortunately.
There also seem to be a subset of sociopaths like GW Bush and C. Rice who
are not categorized like those above but who nonetheless lied the US into a war that has caused over a million deaths. They have paid no consequences and
Unfortunately, powerful leadership positions attract those with mental illnesses/disorders. It is very possible that Bush and Rice have megalomania (NPD) considering what they have done in the past. Kaiser Wilhelm II was a megalomaniac.
There are some experts that believe that there are people that are born sociopaths. But most sociopaths are made. The various traumas that human beings endure as children can twist and warp them. We as a society have such a difficult time looking at this and addressing it as a problem. And we have seem to not be able to identify sociopathy when we see it in our leaders and elsewhere,to our peril. And many of us are traumatized and unable or have difficulty speaking up, telling truth to power because we are so afraid, another type of warping of the human spirit. Thanks for your comment. Let’s keep pointing.
It is important to segregate sociopaths from society to prevent them from doing damage, as they are antisocial. They cannot be cured, so the only recourse is to indentify them and segregate them. Not doing so can have disastrous results.
I once knew two brothers, with one being a sociopath while the other was not. I lean more toward the nature cause (genetic) than the nurture cause. The cold bloodedness of that one brother was off the charts.
If I can indulge myself one more time, I am remembering a situation in which my violent, narcissistic ex-husband was threatening to do something destructive. I was trying to talk him out of it. I was only 26 but I had a moment of genius. I told him: "Go ahead, everybody is going to know for sure that you are crazy." In one sentence I told a secret and also threw up a threat to his all-important self image. And it stopped him in his tracks, for that episode...
Ruth, thank you, thank you for this conversation with this wonderful young man. My friends and I (a company of folks in their 70's) find ourselves getting sucked into the lament that "People are different now, they don't care... remember the old days when we..." This young man, (and you, BTW) dispel this self-indulgent lament. He lays out some actual blueprint for how we might deal with power abuse in the world, in our direct encounters. But he does something more, he points to the antidote: Loving children more and better. What we would want for children is what is good for the world, and should be a guide in all our doings. Amen. I love Lucid. Hugs.
"You have to deal with how was it possible that this situation maladapted itself to accommodate that kind of figure?" We need to get rid of the electoral college which is undemocratic in a society that wants democracy. Imagine where we would be today if Bush and Trump were voted in by popular vote!
Years ago, I worked for Yale and was taking the bus back to my parking area. It was during the Bush/Gore election. Students were buzzing about the election. I overheard a student trying to explain our electoral college to a foreign student who could not grasp how the system worked. He kept saying, but Gore got more votes!
We need to remember when we vote for the highest office in our country, that person will be bringing along many to serve in his administration. The signs of trouble with Trump were with those he chose to hang out with. Business and tech operates this way too with those at the top fearful of those below who counter their agenda.
"Because those people have actually no defenses against that weakness, and they will do anything to try to move away from the wound or destroy it, or overpower it by becoming overpowering." "No matter how well defended they are and how powerfully they posture themselves in the world, they are still nonetheless an open gaping hole of shame. And you can actually use their shame as a weapon against them." I am reminded of Leonard Cohen's line in one of his songs. "There is a crack in everything, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." That is how a good therapist helps break patterns of behavior and thinking.
So interesting. I just rewatched the HBO doc on Elizabeth Holmes and was immediately impressed at how Holmes' ability to capture the attention and total belief of her supporters and financiers was so . . . MAGA-like. Those involved, the enablers, were for the most absolutely besotted by Holmes and her 'vision.' Many denied the reality of the con (the markers were certainly there) because they so badly wanted to believe in what this young woman was selling, a fairy-tale.
Once we place our critical-thinking skills aside, we are vulnerable to this sort of wishful-thinking and the lure of the gamester who repeatedly says:
Very interesting. I was told when I was young that bullies often work out of fear for somebody or something which of course they don't want to admit. If somebody bullies you ask him or her, " "Why you attack me, are you afraid of me?" .........it brings them out of balance because they are shocked by the fact that you think he or she is afraid and it puts you on a high ground. 9 out 10 times the bully will walk away as you may have exposed the weak spot they don't want to expose. Trump seems no different to me. I even used it recently successfully when I got harassed for wearing a COVID mask. They looked stunned and walked away.
Here is what I believe is one of the more significant passages from a host of insightful analyses as well as how to possibly right-course the dangers:
"It is possible, even with someone who is fearsome, to effectuate a kind of psychological jujitsu maneuver where you can find the way to exploit their weakness against them. Because those people have actually no defenses against that weakness, and they will do anything to try to move away from the wound or destroy it, or overpower it by becoming overpowering."
It's what the interviewer (and myself) describe as a form of Japanese jujitsu. It is imperative to turn the narrative on its head, a counter narrative if you will. Expose the tyrants, authoritarians, fascists or whatever category of identity you choose.
For me it's a no brainer: A dictator who may well turn the country into a full-Monty dictatorship come 5 November.
Fascinating interview.
This is such a great interview -- thank you so much for presenting it within our Lucid forum!!!! ♥️🫶🙏
Such a great interview -- thank you for presenting your it to our forum!!!! 🙏♥️
How love can create better leaders, thank you Professor Ruth.
Ruth, thank you for this insightful interview. "Love is the answer to all of life's questions." - a mom I know.
Excellent. Just started Strongmen. Well put together and so much history.
Excellent, thanks. To love kids is our greatest teacher.
Thank you again for introducing us to such incredible people! This was a terrific interview, I just wish we could hear the entire thing. Agreed on the soothing qualities of Beethoven and Mozart...
Yes, always amazed by Ruth’s guests and conversations …. more love for Beethoven and Mozart… but sometimes heavy metal satisfactorily scratches an itch
There have always been con men, power abusers and fraudsters throughout history of one kind or another. In religion we have the preachers and televangelists, people like Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker etc. In politics we have of course Trump and his circle of corruption and greed. In business we had Bernie Madoff and now most recently Elisabeth Holmes. They put up reality distortion fields and they fascinate because of what they're able to get away with.
Power begets power especially as moneyed elites become more corrupt. The less fraud and abuses of power are punished the more of it we will have.
Look what happened at the end of the Civil war when confederate leaders and politicians were pardoned by Andrew Johnson and let back into the union without consequence for their treason and sedition. These people sought to destroy American democracy in order to implement their system of slave oligarchy and spread it westward. They believed white men are better and superior than black men. Fifty years ago Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for his impeachable crimes and abuses of power. G.H. Bush pardoned Iran Contra scandal figures like Casper Weinberg who participated in a coverup to protect Ronald Reagan. Oliver North got off with a slap on the wrist etc.
Straight out of Dante's Inferno, Donald Trump, swirling in the circles of hell below has yet to pay any legal, political or financial price for his numerous crimes, corruption and abuses of power, despite having been twice impeached and defeated for reelection. He's still getting away with it, copiously telling his big lie that the election was rigged and he appears very likely to run again for President in 2024 unless he's indicted, convicted or beset by health issues. He wants vengeance and retribution if returned to power and he's corrupting the voting systems in Republican dominated states with radical loyalists who will do his bidding to insure he doesn't lose again.
Well said. Future cannot be better unless the perpetrators of the past pay their dues by being held accountable. Let me give you more recent examples: Nixon, Reagan, GHB, GWB - all those guys (& Clinton) never faced the proper penalties for their actions. Wonder where we would be today if Nixon had been prosecuted and punished? Iran-Contra might never happened or the crazy stuff in Iraq...
Think I did mention Nixon, Reagan, GH Bush above... Clinton lied about having sex in a civil suit. Didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense.
Nah, the Clintons just have their opposition , Epstein, murdered in jail. (he was going to squeal about the Lolitta Express) Charming folk.. the democrats.
I always appreciate your comments.
It has been estimated that at least 20% of our prison population is comprised of sociopaths (APD). Sociopathy turns out to be fairly common, as far as personality disorders go. They lack the important virtue of empathy which goes hand in hand with their lack of remorse for having caused pain in others. They are sadistic and guileful. Many horrible leaders have been sociopaths, especially fascist ones. Here are some known sociopaths, both leaders and non-leaders-- Allen Dulles, Henry Kissinger, John Gacy, Ted Bundy, Jeffry Dahmer, Josef Mengele, Ayn Rand, Pinochet, Mussolini, Hitler and yes Trump. As we have seen, it only takes one sociopath in a key position to ruin an entire nation. They are destructive charismatic leaders but their grandiosity is so appealing to the masses, unfortunately.
There also seem to be a subset of sociopaths like GW Bush and C. Rice who
are not categorized like those above but who nonetheless lied the US into a war that has caused over a million deaths. They have paid no consequences and
continue to be considered respectable.
Unfortunately, powerful leadership positions attract those with mental illnesses/disorders. It is very possible that Bush and Rice have megalomania (NPD) considering what they have done in the past. Kaiser Wilhelm II was a megalomaniac.
And yet they are not held to account.
There are some experts that believe that there are people that are born sociopaths. But most sociopaths are made. The various traumas that human beings endure as children can twist and warp them. We as a society have such a difficult time looking at this and addressing it as a problem. And we have seem to not be able to identify sociopathy when we see it in our leaders and elsewhere,to our peril. And many of us are traumatized and unable or have difficulty speaking up, telling truth to power because we are so afraid, another type of warping of the human spirit. Thanks for your comment. Let’s keep pointing.
It is important to segregate sociopaths from society to prevent them from doing damage, as they are antisocial. They cannot be cured, so the only recourse is to indentify them and segregate them. Not doing so can have disastrous results.
I once knew two brothers, with one being a sociopath while the other was not. I lean more toward the nature cause (genetic) than the nurture cause. The cold bloodedness of that one brother was off the charts.
You are probably mostly right about that, Steve, I have met such people. I hope there are some that are retreivable and that we find ways. So scary.
If I can indulge myself one more time, I am remembering a situation in which my violent, narcissistic ex-husband was threatening to do something destructive. I was trying to talk him out of it. I was only 26 but I had a moment of genius. I told him: "Go ahead, everybody is going to know for sure that you are crazy." In one sentence I told a secret and also threw up a threat to his all-important self image. And it stopped him in his tracks, for that episode...
Ruth, thank you, thank you for this conversation with this wonderful young man. My friends and I (a company of folks in their 70's) find ourselves getting sucked into the lament that "People are different now, they don't care... remember the old days when we..." This young man, (and you, BTW) dispel this self-indulgent lament. He lays out some actual blueprint for how we might deal with power abuse in the world, in our direct encounters. But he does something more, he points to the antidote: Loving children more and better. What we would want for children is what is good for the world, and should be a guide in all our doings. Amen. I love Lucid. Hugs.
One of your best interviews.
"You have to deal with how was it possible that this situation maladapted itself to accommodate that kind of figure?" We need to get rid of the electoral college which is undemocratic in a society that wants democracy. Imagine where we would be today if Bush and Trump were voted in by popular vote!
Years ago, I worked for Yale and was taking the bus back to my parking area. It was during the Bush/Gore election. Students were buzzing about the election. I overheard a student trying to explain our electoral college to a foreign student who could not grasp how the system worked. He kept saying, but Gore got more votes!
We need to remember when we vote for the highest office in our country, that person will be bringing along many to serve in his administration. The signs of trouble with Trump were with those he chose to hang out with. Business and tech operates this way too with those at the top fearful of those below who counter their agenda.
"Because those people have actually no defenses against that weakness, and they will do anything to try to move away from the wound or destroy it, or overpower it by becoming overpowering." "No matter how well defended they are and how powerfully they posture themselves in the world, they are still nonetheless an open gaping hole of shame. And you can actually use their shame as a weapon against them." I am reminded of Leonard Cohen's line in one of his songs. "There is a crack in everything, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." That is how a good therapist helps break patterns of behavior and thinking.
So interesting. I just rewatched the HBO doc on Elizabeth Holmes and was immediately impressed at how Holmes' ability to capture the attention and total belief of her supporters and financiers was so . . . MAGA-like. Those involved, the enablers, were for the most absolutely besotted by Holmes and her 'vision.' Many denied the reality of the con (the markers were certainly there) because they so badly wanted to believe in what this young woman was selling, a fairy-tale.
Once we place our critical-thinking skills aside, we are vulnerable to this sort of wishful-thinking and the lure of the gamester who repeatedly says:
I have the answer; only I can fix it. Believe me.
The Pied Piper's seduction is ruinous, deadly.
Critical thinking, so important.
Yes, this is know as motivated reasoning and is a part of cognitive bias. Peoples' emotion supersede truth.
Very interesting. I was told when I was young that bullies often work out of fear for somebody or something which of course they don't want to admit. If somebody bullies you ask him or her, " "Why you attack me, are you afraid of me?" .........it brings them out of balance because they are shocked by the fact that you think he or she is afraid and it puts you on a high ground. 9 out 10 times the bully will walk away as you may have exposed the weak spot they don't want to expose. Trump seems no different to me. I even used it recently successfully when I got harassed for wearing a COVID mask. They looked stunned and walked away.
Such good advice, thank you for sharing. Bullies can sometimes be powered down slowly and gently.