Simple, he, like his collaborator Maggie Haberman, sits on the story until he can sell a book rather than go to print with the information the American people need in real time. Prove me wrong.
Logic? Are you serious? Both of these two access only insiders have published more than one book based on shit they knew for months and sat on until their book was published. Go away troll.
I’m a retired philosophy professor who taught thousands of students critical thinking. Logic always applies, especially when someone is making claims without support or trying to put the burden of proof elsewhere when it’s on HIM. I’m done with your shit. If you can’t think straight, it’s your problem, not mine.
Professor Ben-Ghiat, thank you for this excellent interview and discussion about the current American authoritarian govt. You mention that authoritarians (like the current guy) have no interest in democracy or governance. It shows, doesn’t it. I am very much looking forward to your upcoming book. I gobbled Strongmen, what a terrific book!
Trump is able to get so many people on his side not because they believe in him, but because they're terrified he will make their lives a living hell if they don't support him. How many thousands of lives has he ruined, either directly - or indirectly by inciting his manic, unhinged, vicious cult. There's no "magic." It's fear and cruelty.
Brilliant interview. Thank you. When people talk about Trump's charisma, about his ability to make people believe in him, I always wonder what's really at work here. I don't question that ability, but I do wonder what is going on in the minds of his followers. WHY are they attracted? What is missing in them? How do we fix it?
The reasons for the attraction and the spell he casts are complex. One of the reasons for the attraction is known as identity fusion, where follwers see themselves in him. Being that he's consumed by the Dark Tetrad characteristics, followers with one or more of these characteristics (narcissism, ASPD, sadism, Machiavellianism) see him as a kindred spirit. We are not going to be able to fix people like this.
Another reason was explained by J.M. Post in his comment, "The sense of grandiose omnipotence of the leader is especially appealing to his needy follower. A hallmark of the destructive charismatic leader is absolutist polarizing rhetoric, drawing his followers together against the outside enemy.".
But there is much more going on here. See Leslie's comment below.
His charisma is a carefully honed type of hypnosis, sometimes referred to as NLP. I knew someone like this. It's a predator's technique, looking at you a certain way, speaking in a certain tone of voice, "love bombing" you, mirroring your mannerisms, etc. until you're "hooked." Once you're hooked, your psyche takes over, convincing yourself that this person cares for you, even though all of their actions show you they don't. You savor a crumb, you hang on...until you wise up (if at all). The "mark" of the conman generates these intoxicating feelings, which is why the "fever" can be so hard to break. Feelings aren't facts, but they can be very powerful. It's hard to process that the feelings were real, but were based on delusions, deceptions and a desire to defraud us all.
This is so interesting. (If terrifying) I am assuming that people develop this way for any number of reasons. The fact that there are so many needy people of this sort in our country seems to say something about our culture---though perhaps we are not alone in this phenomenon. I am very glad that---as far as I know---I've never encountered someone like this. Creepy as hell.
I wonder when reporters are going to look him in the eyes and call BS on all his corruption; he is sleazy and disgusting. I get that journalist need to interview him, but when, when, when will these legacy journalists just come straight out and call him a liar!
Trump & Co corruption & criminality on an epic scale: In 12 Months Trump crypto made Trump $1.4 Billion while retail investors lost nearly $4 Billion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvG2s-LZl_c
Flawed, not perfect Dems are at least an order of magnitude better than the Trump & Co packs of depraved sociopaths. Resist corrupt authoritarians & Vote Blue! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_i38-qjtbI Please, 86 47 & his capos with a Blue Tsunami. #VoteBlue!
This is a fascinating interview that connects a lot of the dots that I've been noticing and explains so much of what I've been wondering about. Thank you. Please do more conversations together.
As with Trump wanting to get his name on everything he can think of, he’ll eventually get around to calling the Republican Party the Trump GOP, as way to maintain his powerful image, as the key ingredient holding the party together after he’s gone.
A great interview; and I've heard Maggie Haberman alone and the two of them together about this book, so it was valuable to hear Jonathan Swan alone. It's amazing to get this level of detail in book form while the activities of the protagonist are still underway. I hope it helps to create some cognitive dissonance vote switching in the coming year. p.s. the comments below about the "charisma factor" are fascinating. Thanks to the Lucid community for being so insightful.
I was amazed at Jonathan's naïveté regarding Trump. Let me be quite blunt. Trump was a known entity long before he wandered onto the national political scene. And the "record" was far from pretty. (I have not yet read the book). From the Federal lawsuit against Trump and his father for housing discrimination to multiple bankruptcies (who the hell can bankrupt a casino?) to demanding the death sentence for the "Central Park Five" before all the details of the case were known...Trump had left a long trail.
Did Jonathan not know about Sinclair Lewis' 1935 classic entitled, "It Can't Happen Here"? A book that very accurately predicted Trump the politician. Charisma? I wonder whether you understand that word, Jonathan.
Finally, I think it was Tim Snyder who coined the term "Superpower Suicide" for what is happening the USA.
Swan and Haberman are both promoting the idea that there’s a big change from Trump 1 to Trump 2. They both fawned over Trump, sane washed him and accepted the bullshit from the adults in the room like John Kelly and Mark Meadows, for nearly ten years, but now want to change course and make money from their own tell all. As you say, correctly, he’s been a known commodity for a long time…so are Swan and Haberman, courtiers to the imperialistic king of sleaze.
Very good interview. I've read the book and saw the talk from Politics and Prose (excellent) This adds even more dimensions, plus we get to hear Ruth's comments on the discoveries made in the book.
I don’t think the slimy orange turd has charisma: he is a magnet to people who are susceptible to cults, who want to give up their own minds and thinking to someone else so they don’t have to be responsible. He thinks he can solve all puzzles and problems with his “enormous” intellect, and that absurd certainty is so attractive to those who are looking for someone to do their thinking for them.
Discussing the death of our government in such measured tones. I'm so tired of these journalists who bullshit us every day in their news reports, then write tell-all books forcing Americans to spend even more money to read the "real behind the scenes story."
Jonathan Swan is as much a Trump enabler as the people he so decries.
Well I wondered. Who interviews the devil for a book about evil.
Gotta say, ya gotta love the ahole’s top ten great men.
Who else would you interview? The devil's the expert.
True!
No, do not agree.
Why? Support your assertion.
Simple, he, like his collaborator Maggie Haberman, sits on the story until he can sell a book rather than go to print with the information the American people need in real time. Prove me wrong.
You are absolutely correct.
NOPE: the burden of proof is on YOU, not me, as you’ve made the positive assertion. Learn your logic.
Logic? Are you serious? Both of these two access only insiders have published more than one book based on shit they knew for months and sat on until their book was published. Go away troll.
I’m a retired philosophy professor who taught thousands of students critical thinking. Logic always applies, especially when someone is making claims without support or trying to put the burden of proof elsewhere when it’s on HIM. I’m done with your shit. If you can’t think straight, it’s your problem, not mine.
Thank you. Better to know.
Professor Ben-Ghiat, thank you for this excellent interview and discussion about the current American authoritarian govt. You mention that authoritarians (like the current guy) have no interest in democracy or governance. It shows, doesn’t it. I am very much looking forward to your upcoming book. I gobbled Strongmen, what a terrific book!
Ruth Ben ghiat and Johnathan swan standing up with the facts for democracy, thanks
Trump is able to get so many people on his side not because they believe in him, but because they're terrified he will make their lives a living hell if they don't support him. How many thousands of lives has he ruined, either directly - or indirectly by inciting his manic, unhinged, vicious cult. There's no "magic." It's fear and cruelty.
I think that we separate followers from the people who work with and for him.
Brilliant interview. Thank you. When people talk about Trump's charisma, about his ability to make people believe in him, I always wonder what's really at work here. I don't question that ability, but I do wonder what is going on in the minds of his followers. WHY are they attracted? What is missing in them? How do we fix it?
The reasons for the attraction and the spell he casts are complex. One of the reasons for the attraction is known as identity fusion, where follwers see themselves in him. Being that he's consumed by the Dark Tetrad characteristics, followers with one or more of these characteristics (narcissism, ASPD, sadism, Machiavellianism) see him as a kindred spirit. We are not going to be able to fix people like this.
Another reason was explained by J.M. Post in his comment, "The sense of grandiose omnipotence of the leader is especially appealing to his needy follower. A hallmark of the destructive charismatic leader is absolutist polarizing rhetoric, drawing his followers together against the outside enemy.".
But there is much more going on here. See Leslie's comment below.
Thank you. I really appreciate this information.
His charisma is a carefully honed type of hypnosis, sometimes referred to as NLP. I knew someone like this. It's a predator's technique, looking at you a certain way, speaking in a certain tone of voice, "love bombing" you, mirroring your mannerisms, etc. until you're "hooked." Once you're hooked, your psyche takes over, convincing yourself that this person cares for you, even though all of their actions show you they don't. You savor a crumb, you hang on...until you wise up (if at all). The "mark" of the conman generates these intoxicating feelings, which is why the "fever" can be so hard to break. Feelings aren't facts, but they can be very powerful. It's hard to process that the feelings were real, but were based on delusions, deceptions and a desire to defraud us all.
This is so interesting. (If terrifying) I am assuming that people develop this way for any number of reasons. The fact that there are so many needy people of this sort in our country seems to say something about our culture---though perhaps we are not alone in this phenomenon. I am very glad that---as far as I know---I've never encountered someone like this. Creepy as hell.
I wonder when reporters are going to look him in the eyes and call BS on all his corruption; he is sleazy and disgusting. I get that journalist need to interview him, but when, when, when will these legacy journalists just come straight out and call him a liar!
And I also want to know why anyone thinks he's going to give up the "stage"
I fear we are in for a civil battle.
Trump & Co corruption & criminality on an epic scale: In 12 Months Trump crypto made Trump $1.4 Billion while retail investors lost nearly $4 Billion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvG2s-LZl_c
Flawed, not perfect Dems are at least an order of magnitude better than the Trump & Co packs of depraved sociopaths. Resist corrupt authoritarians & Vote Blue! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_i38-qjtbI Please, 86 47 & his capos with a Blue Tsunami. #VoteBlue!
This is a fascinating interview that connects a lot of the dots that I've been noticing and explains so much of what I've been wondering about. Thank you. Please do more conversations together.
As with Trump wanting to get his name on everything he can think of, he’ll eventually get around to calling the Republican Party the Trump GOP, as way to maintain his powerful image, as the key ingredient holding the party together after he’s gone.
A great interview; and I've heard Maggie Haberman alone and the two of them together about this book, so it was valuable to hear Jonathan Swan alone. It's amazing to get this level of detail in book form while the activities of the protagonist are still underway. I hope it helps to create some cognitive dissonance vote switching in the coming year. p.s. the comments below about the "charisma factor" are fascinating. Thanks to the Lucid community for being so insightful.
Great discussion, thank you both.
I was amazed at Jonathan's naïveté regarding Trump. Let me be quite blunt. Trump was a known entity long before he wandered onto the national political scene. And the "record" was far from pretty. (I have not yet read the book). From the Federal lawsuit against Trump and his father for housing discrimination to multiple bankruptcies (who the hell can bankrupt a casino?) to demanding the death sentence for the "Central Park Five" before all the details of the case were known...Trump had left a long trail.
Did Jonathan not know about Sinclair Lewis' 1935 classic entitled, "It Can't Happen Here"? A book that very accurately predicted Trump the politician. Charisma? I wonder whether you understand that word, Jonathan.
Finally, I think it was Tim Snyder who coined the term "Superpower Suicide" for what is happening the USA.
Swan and Haberman are both promoting the idea that there’s a big change from Trump 1 to Trump 2. They both fawned over Trump, sane washed him and accepted the bullshit from the adults in the room like John Kelly and Mark Meadows, for nearly ten years, but now want to change course and make money from their own tell all. As you say, correctly, he’s been a known commodity for a long time…so are Swan and Haberman, courtiers to the imperialistic king of sleaze.
Very good interview. I've read the book and saw the talk from Politics and Prose (excellent) This adds even more dimensions, plus we get to hear Ruth's comments on the discoveries made in the book.
I don’t think the slimy orange turd has charisma: he is a magnet to people who are susceptible to cults, who want to give up their own minds and thinking to someone else so they don’t have to be responsible. He thinks he can solve all puzzles and problems with his “enormous” intellect, and that absurd certainty is so attractive to those who are looking for someone to do their thinking for them.
Discussing the death of our government in such measured tones. I'm so tired of these journalists who bullshit us every day in their news reports, then write tell-all books forcing Americans to spend even more money to read the "real behind the scenes story."