Is this the interview time with Dr Steven Hassan??!
I'm hoping to understand how we can learn to counteract the propaganda that's flooded the minds of our family, friends and colleagues!
I've tried embedding a tiny seed of doubt by asking, ‘If you were being lied to, would you want to know?’ No response required, just leave the question hanging in the mind to hopefully disrupt the illusion installed in their mind by authoritarian systems of control.
Trump’s cult was created because democracy requires that the public get truthful information, but the information is being blocked by Trump, his administration, Republicans in Congress, corporations and news media including Fox News who exploit the weak legal system. The weak legal system combined with modern information technology has enabled the attack on democracy and truthful information by Republicans, corporations, and the wealthy since the organized and funded attack was launched by the Powell Memo in 1971 with support from fake Christians. Democrats should create a new federal law that makes suppression of information and lying by elected federal officials or candidates for federal office a criminal felony. Lying can be instantaneously checked by AI and the law should require the lying to be immediately retracted and corrected. The law should also require AI fact checking and retractions on Fox News and service providers of the Internet to retain FCC certification, and require AI fact checking inside non-profit religious organizations and churches that promote political lying as a requirement to retain non-profit status.
The challenge to democracy isn’t just about suppression of truthful information. It’s behavioral. People aren’t just misinformed. They’re conditioned to distrust collective knowledge and gravitate toward emotionally satisfying narratives, even when they’re false.
Part of the problem is behavioral. A good reference is the book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman who got the Nobel Prize in Economics based on his work as a psychologist explaining human behavior – both rational and irrational. The book explores how two distinct mental models - one built fast and intuitive, one built slow and deliberative – shape people’s judgment and decision-making. The book offers insights into cognitive biases and rational thinking. There’s a theory of stochastic information processing with a math that explains how the mental models are formed. The stochastic math explains how neural networks learn which is used to train AI. Of course, the brain is just a big group of neural networks. If enough false information is used to drive a neural network, the model accepts the false information as truth and rejects truthful information that disagrees. Therefore, a solution requires suppression of false propaganda based on lying. Trump understands this manipulation of how people think based on repeated false information. Trump understand the need to constantly repeat false information combined with the suppression of truthful information. So did Hilter.
"Therefore, a solution requires suppression of false propaganda based on lying."
This reminds me of one of Hitler's henchmen saying that propaganda can be used in a society which has freedom of speech, to overthrow it. A nation that allows fascist speech to propagate, will soon become fascist. Our news media discovered way too late that what tRump was selling was fascism. They're still not doing much of anything to stop the dissemination of fascist speech.
I agree with every word Dr. Hassan says, and that he has written. What bothers me is the amount of time and the one on one that is required to make this detachment from MAGA work. It is simply unfeasible for what we are facing. Also, while, we can approach people with love, what we often encounter is toxic vilification and accusation, no matter how soft and caring we are. That is hard.
Who are you going to trust to judge truth? There's objective truth, and subjective truth, and both are important. Isn't it better to teach discernment? IMO, intelligent and self-identified informed people are some of the most easily taken in or distracted by the rhetoric of their chosen information bubbles.
That's the definition of a disinformation path. AI is programmed. It inherently "knows" nothing, and even its ability at discernment is a result of programming.
I have a PhD in stochastic information which is formally described in math which is the math used to train AI. I have verified the math which uses neural nets to detect and prevent failures in systems including software failures. The effectiveness of AI in detecting lying can be easily verified. Do you trust the navigation system guiding airplanes which uses the same stochastic math programmed into software that is used to filter out the errors and noise and keep the plane on the true intended flight path - which I think is proof of accurately and completely "knowing" what the plane is doing and where it is. All space flights use the math so do nuclear missiles. Stochastic information math is not a disinformation path. Trump, Republicans and Fox News are unregulated disinformation paths. The weak legal system with corrupt judges and weak laws is destroying democracy.
Read the book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahnman. The book shows how people think poorly by not understanding the math for stochastic information which explains probablities and how people think fast using false assumptions.
It doesn't take long to make someone feel less stupid or less vulnerable, that can occure in a few moments. What will take time, is making those positive connections over the years but it is not an unfeasible proposition.
Yes, we can get toxic vilification in response but stick with it and one learns to deflect the toxicity, as it is a manifestation of that person's pain and has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Following Dr Hassen's recommendations will reduce the toxicity of the responses.
I look forward to listening! Thank you. Cult leaders seem to have a zero-sum mentality and bias. This voids empathy in favor of control.
The cold-blooded core of tyranny (and the Social Dominance Orientation) is the zero-sum, win-lose mentality and bias
Wake Up America! Trump is all tricks and no treats. Plus examples of win-win situations, in daily life and with AI (artificial intelligence) (and links for Hurricane Melissa relief in Jamaica)
"Hasta La Muerte" - "Until death" - awareness of death triggers questions of how we must live. Links to protect SNAP benefits, and for Jamaican Hurricane relief!
The cult leader, David Koresh was known to be a psychopath (ASPD). If we call Mussolini's Italy a cult, then we must recognize that his sociopathy (ASPD) was a major contributor to the cult he formed. tRump of course is a known sociopath and has formed a cult. I believe that these people are win/lose oriented due to their extreme grandiosity. When no one is their equal, how can they possibly accept a win/win?
That was a good article, well written and with good points. The part on megalomania was excellent, as I have seen a so called friend of my wife, abuse her in a parasitic relationship. The connection you made between megalomania and Machiavellianism was interesting.
I can also recommend a good documentary called "The Brainwashing of My Dad" (Jen Senko). Her Dad was a middle-of-the-road democrat who started listening to talk radio (a la Rush Limbaugh) and slowly became radicalized, listening to and/or watching Fox News nonstop. Ultimately, the family were able to get through to him. It's very informative and has a happy ending.
My adult son and I talk about the important challenge of welcoming disheartened former trump supporters into the pro democracy fold, and Dr Hassan's recom-mendations confirm our thinking; empathy, compassion, deep listening, patience and humility.
Brilliant talk. Thank you for clarity and hard won knowledge. Both Ruth and Steve spoke of personal experiences with those who are either indoctrinated or cognitively rigid, thus triggering defensiveness around a leader. The leader’s narrative of threat and relief becomes cult and then cultural power. I’m humbled by how hard this situation is, either interpersonally or culturally. I wish society would learn from those who have maintained contact which allows return to a more humane grounding. I suppose if the followers can be guided back then the false leader will lose power, and probably ramp up defensiveness at his disposal. So it’s not easy to face a powerful man who faces defeat. Even the ultimat defeat of death, or violent removal. Ruth last reported on Putin’s obsession, for example, with videos of Hussein or Qaddafi’s demise. Instead of wisdom through facing mortality, they try to live and rule forever.
"Hasta La Muerte" - "Until death" - awareness of death triggers questions of how we must live. Links to protect SNAP benefits, and for Jamaican Hurricane relief!
My 78 year old husband and I attended the beautiful No Kings Day rally in North Scottsdale, AZ. Wonderful signage, and so many soulmates, 1,200, in a very conservative area. My husband chose to stand by the road to wave his sign at passing vehicles, and bicyclists until one rode by, threw out his fist, punched my husband and sent him flying in the air and down on his head. My husband now has a broken femur and pelvis, and this violent person has upended our happy existence. This post would be better suited for the article on Trump encouraging violence, but shows the extremes people will go for him. Fortunately, the friendly police patrolling the event caught the guy and cited him for disorderly conduct and assault. My husband now has an iron rod and pin in his femur and still in rehab. Maybe the assaulter can appeal to The Orange maggot to pay for his defense, as he’s promised others to commit violence on his behalf. This is the behavior the cult leader cultivates and wants from his adherents. On that point, he’s doing a good job.
Excellent interview with solid advice. Thank you so much! Am forwarding this to friends who work in Braver Angels locally in their effort to grow effective conversations with those of opposing views; developing depolarization skills in ourselves; and creating opportunities to discuss challenging issues in our local communities. As Dr. Hassan & Ruth say, it's about helping people get a glimpse into themselves from another perspective that is non-threatening, supportive, and non-judgmental.
Is this the interview time with Dr Steven Hassan??!
I'm hoping to understand how we can learn to counteract the propaganda that's flooded the minds of our family, friends and colleagues!
I've tried embedding a tiny seed of doubt by asking, ‘If you were being lied to, would you want to know?’ No response required, just leave the question hanging in the mind to hopefully disrupt the illusion installed in their mind by authoritarian systems of control.
Gemma
Trump’s cult was created because democracy requires that the public get truthful information, but the information is being blocked by Trump, his administration, Republicans in Congress, corporations and news media including Fox News who exploit the weak legal system. The weak legal system combined with modern information technology has enabled the attack on democracy and truthful information by Republicans, corporations, and the wealthy since the organized and funded attack was launched by the Powell Memo in 1971 with support from fake Christians. Democrats should create a new federal law that makes suppression of information and lying by elected federal officials or candidates for federal office a criminal felony. Lying can be instantaneously checked by AI and the law should require the lying to be immediately retracted and corrected. The law should also require AI fact checking and retractions on Fox News and service providers of the Internet to retain FCC certification, and require AI fact checking inside non-profit religious organizations and churches that promote political lying as a requirement to retain non-profit status.
The challenge to democracy isn’t just about suppression of truthful information. It’s behavioral. People aren’t just misinformed. They’re conditioned to distrust collective knowledge and gravitate toward emotionally satisfying narratives, even when they’re false.
Part of the problem is behavioral. A good reference is the book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman who got the Nobel Prize in Economics based on his work as a psychologist explaining human behavior – both rational and irrational. The book explores how two distinct mental models - one built fast and intuitive, one built slow and deliberative – shape people’s judgment and decision-making. The book offers insights into cognitive biases and rational thinking. There’s a theory of stochastic information processing with a math that explains how the mental models are formed. The stochastic math explains how neural networks learn which is used to train AI. Of course, the brain is just a big group of neural networks. If enough false information is used to drive a neural network, the model accepts the false information as truth and rejects truthful information that disagrees. Therefore, a solution requires suppression of false propaganda based on lying. Trump understands this manipulation of how people think based on repeated false information. Trump understand the need to constantly repeat false information combined with the suppression of truthful information. So did Hilter.
"Therefore, a solution requires suppression of false propaganda based on lying."
This reminds me of one of Hitler's henchmen saying that propaganda can be used in a society which has freedom of speech, to overthrow it. A nation that allows fascist speech to propagate, will soon become fascist. Our news media discovered way too late that what tRump was selling was fascism. They're still not doing much of anything to stop the dissemination of fascist speech.
How do we find it?
This doesn’t look right for CA unless you’re in different time zone?
This is an important primer on undoing MAGA one person at a time with a series of LISTENING interactions.
we can do it!
I agree with every word Dr. Hassan says, and that he has written. What bothers me is the amount of time and the one on one that is required to make this detachment from MAGA work. It is simply unfeasible for what we are facing. Also, while, we can approach people with love, what we often encounter is toxic vilification and accusation, no matter how soft and caring we are. That is hard.
Yes. We need new law that regulates political lying by elected politicians and requires AI fact checking. Read my comment to Gemma.
Who are you going to trust to judge truth? There's objective truth, and subjective truth, and both are important. Isn't it better to teach discernment? IMO, intelligent and self-identified informed people are some of the most easily taken in or distracted by the rhetoric of their chosen information bubbles.
Trust AI trained on facts
That's the definition of a disinformation path. AI is programmed. It inherently "knows" nothing, and even its ability at discernment is a result of programming.
I have a PhD in stochastic information which is formally described in math which is the math used to train AI. I have verified the math which uses neural nets to detect and prevent failures in systems including software failures. The effectiveness of AI in detecting lying can be easily verified. Do you trust the navigation system guiding airplanes which uses the same stochastic math programmed into software that is used to filter out the errors and noise and keep the plane on the true intended flight path - which I think is proof of accurately and completely "knowing" what the plane is doing and where it is. All space flights use the math so do nuclear missiles. Stochastic information math is not a disinformation path. Trump, Republicans and Fox News are unregulated disinformation paths. The weak legal system with corrupt judges and weak laws is destroying democracy.
Read the book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahnman. The book shows how people think poorly by not understanding the math for stochastic information which explains probablities and how people think fast using false assumptions.
It doesn't take long to make someone feel less stupid or less vulnerable, that can occure in a few moments. What will take time, is making those positive connections over the years but it is not an unfeasible proposition.
Yes, we can get toxic vilification in response but stick with it and one learns to deflect the toxicity, as it is a manifestation of that person's pain and has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Following Dr Hassen's recommendations will reduce the toxicity of the responses.
One on one, if the result is positive, evokes in the changed one the courage and confidence needed to share the experience.
It's not 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 . . .
It's 1 squared –> two squared –> four squared –> 16 squared–> 256 squared –> 65,536 squared . . . .
This shift can happen very, very quickly.
Cruelty & chaos, hunger games, terrorizing kids & protecting pedophiles: Christian values?
Judges rule that Trump admin must use contingency funds for SNAP benefits while Trump & Co mock their base & the needy.
Get up, stand up & resist the fraudster authoritarians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdWJS5yAnw0
I look forward to listening! Thank you. Cult leaders seem to have a zero-sum mentality and bias. This voids empathy in favor of control.
The cold-blooded core of tyranny (and the Social Dominance Orientation) is the zero-sum, win-lose mentality and bias
Wake Up America! Trump is all tricks and no treats. Plus examples of win-win situations, in daily life and with AI (artificial intelligence) (and links for Hurricane Melissa relief in Jamaica)
https://sunmoonlight.substack.com/p/the-cold-blooded-core-of-tyranny
"Hasta La Muerte" - "Until death" - awareness of death triggers questions of how we must live. Links to protect SNAP benefits, and for Jamaican Hurricane relief!
Happy Día de Muertos (Day of the Dead)
https://sunmoonlight.substack.com/p/hasta-la-muerte-until-death-awareness
Agree concerning win/lose.
The cult leader, David Koresh was known to be a psychopath (ASPD). If we call Mussolini's Italy a cult, then we must recognize that his sociopathy (ASPD) was a major contributor to the cult he formed. tRump of course is a known sociopath and has formed a cult. I believe that these people are win/lose oriented due to their extreme grandiosity. When no one is their equal, how can they possibly accept a win/win?
They perhaps embody the conflict of power structures. I think we have to advance a different kind of power.
Which of Six Power Types Will You Embody and Support? | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-pacific-heart/202209/which-of-six-power-types-will-you-embody-and-support
That was a good article, well written and with good points. The part on megalomania was excellent, as I have seen a so called friend of my wife, abuse her in a parasitic relationship. The connection you made between megalomania and Machiavellianism was interesting.
Thanks for reading and for your kind words!
I can also recommend a good documentary called "The Brainwashing of My Dad" (Jen Senko). Her Dad was a middle-of-the-road democrat who started listening to talk radio (a la Rush Limbaugh) and slowly became radicalized, listening to and/or watching Fox News nonstop. Ultimately, the family were able to get through to him. It's very informative and has a happy ending.
I just started reading Strongmen. I highly recommend it to all who wish to understand how we got to where we are
Terrific and important interview. Very helpful.
thank you for that!!!
What a great interview!
My adult son and I talk about the important challenge of welcoming disheartened former trump supporters into the pro democracy fold, and Dr Hassan's recom-mendations confirm our thinking; empathy, compassion, deep listening, patience and humility.
You are amazing.
Brilliant talk. Thank you for clarity and hard won knowledge. Both Ruth and Steve spoke of personal experiences with those who are either indoctrinated or cognitively rigid, thus triggering defensiveness around a leader. The leader’s narrative of threat and relief becomes cult and then cultural power. I’m humbled by how hard this situation is, either interpersonally or culturally. I wish society would learn from those who have maintained contact which allows return to a more humane grounding. I suppose if the followers can be guided back then the false leader will lose power, and probably ramp up defensiveness at his disposal. So it’s not easy to face a powerful man who faces defeat. Even the ultimat defeat of death, or violent removal. Ruth last reported on Putin’s obsession, for example, with videos of Hussein or Qaddafi’s demise. Instead of wisdom through facing mortality, they try to live and rule forever.
"Hasta La Muerte" - "Until death" - awareness of death triggers questions of how we must live. Links to protect SNAP benefits, and for Jamaican Hurricane relief!
Happy Día de Muertos (Day of the Dead)
https://sunmoonlight.substack.com/p/hasta-la-muerte-until-death-awareness
My 78 year old husband and I attended the beautiful No Kings Day rally in North Scottsdale, AZ. Wonderful signage, and so many soulmates, 1,200, in a very conservative area. My husband chose to stand by the road to wave his sign at passing vehicles, and bicyclists until one rode by, threw out his fist, punched my husband and sent him flying in the air and down on his head. My husband now has a broken femur and pelvis, and this violent person has upended our happy existence. This post would be better suited for the article on Trump encouraging violence, but shows the extremes people will go for him. Fortunately, the friendly police patrolling the event caught the guy and cited him for disorderly conduct and assault. My husband now has an iron rod and pin in his femur and still in rehab. Maybe the assaulter can appeal to The Orange maggot to pay for his defense, as he’s promised others to commit violence on his behalf. This is the behavior the cult leader cultivates and wants from his adherents. On that point, he’s doing a good job.
Excellent interview with solid advice. Thank you so much! Am forwarding this to friends who work in Braver Angels locally in their effort to grow effective conversations with those of opposing views; developing depolarization skills in ourselves; and creating opportunities to discuss challenging issues in our local communities. As Dr. Hassan & Ruth say, it's about helping people get a glimpse into themselves from another perspective that is non-threatening, supportive, and non-judgmental.